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Salvage Shop Beta Phase 2

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  • #16
    EggToken

    First of, I appreciate what you are doing here providing us with info. Looking at current beta and adjustments you intend to make I would like to steer your thinking to another direction...

    Every decently active player with a few months in should have more tower and defence boosts (apart from hammers which are vital particularly in diamond) than they appreciate thus will very likely dust those before anything else. That is quite reasonable.

    Now, if we talk about balancing the economy it is a lot more helpful to adjust bronze and gold chest drops before dust exchange rates. To give an example lets just list up two drops out of 10 bronze:

    1x 6x30% dragon hp
    1x 30% dragon hp
    2x 30% dragon atk
    1x 30% tower hp
    1x 30% tower atk
    1x def armor
    1x def hammer
    2x 6x15min speedup

    2x 6x30% tower hp
    1x 6x30% tower atk
    1x def hammer
    1x def gunpowder
    1x def armor
    1x 30% dragon atk
    1x 30 egg token
    1x 1hrs speedup
    1x healing pot


    Point is, no matter what, items that almost everyone has a surplus of are dominating bronze chest drops. If we are really unlucky we even get to see those in gold chests. This clearly doesn't reflect your idea of making the players, your customers, happy nor does it help to balance the economy.

    Start here, start with the reason why certain items are flooding the economy in the first place by adjusting drops accordingly even if that results in a lower chest drop rate to offset increased drop quality.

    It is one thing to address certain dust exchange rates in order to avoid exploits, however, making adjustments to answer massive drop dissonances made by PG in the past only leads to widespread unhappiness.

    .................

    As a summary I'd like you to think about to acknowledge economy imbalances made in the past by keeping dust rates and decrease payouts for specific items to address flooding. Game won't break if players gain a few additional levels resulting therefrom this once EggToken.
    Last edited by Azure; 04-26-2017, 07:53 AM.

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    • EggToken
      EggToken commented
      Editing a comment
      While I'm not the "all-powerful" when it comes to the direction that the Salvage Shop goes, I do talk to the team about the feedback we get here.

      The purpose of the Salvage Shop is to ultimately convert consumables earned from playing into things more useful to you at whatever point of the game you're in. If everything you had in your inventory was super-valuable to you at that time, then there would be no reason to engage with the Salvage Shop in any way (and ultimately, no reason for us to continue working on this feature). We do see that players express complaints about the contents of chests, but keep in mind that every player has different needs at different points in the game. The Salvage Shop serves as an option to balance out your consumables to things you'd much rather have in exchange for things that would have just collected dust (no pun intended) in the past.

    • Kittens
      Kittens commented
      Editing a comment
      When it's almost unanimously base boosts that are turned in, that should tell you something about the drop rates in chests. It's not like people haven't been complaining about this for a long time, with the salvage shop being the proposed solution. Then when it comes to pass that sure enough, people are turning in the things they've been getting way too many of in chests, we get this announcement about "balancing" the exchange rates of those exact things. How am I not to interpret this as intentionally flooding chests with way too many base boosts, then nerfing the hell out of the exchange rates for all but a select few who were randomly selected? If there was any honesty in this, we'd either be seeing a fairly even distribution of what items are being sold (no "rebalance" necessary), or an acknowledgement that chest drop rates are screwed up and need to be adjusted so that everybody isn't selling the same thing.

  • #17
    so tower boosts salvage now for 7 dust... cant wait to see how they increased the prize of timers.. the only actually valuable stuff in the daily shop...

    righty.. so defense boosts are abundant in gold chests.. and most people hate em, me included.. they take 5 hours to forge and salvage for 7 dust..
    Stoneskin shield takes 5 hours to forge but salvages for 14... so there is absolutely no balance per forging time, the balancing is done
    to tip the favour into PG's pockets as much as possible. This is ridiculous! if you are going to halve the value of things, then you better halve the
    frequency in which they show up in the chests. you talk about economic balance EggToken , but what balance?
    the balance of us having to pay more and more to advance the same we did a year before? the amount of stuff in gold chests to dilute prizes is ridiculous!
    embers, pearls, increased amount of tower boosts, reducing the timer amount. so do you truly believe that trying to halt peoples progress, and
    making it more expensive to do so, make people spend more and enjoy your game more? Well I got news for you, it doesn't!
    it makes people resent your game, it makes people want to find ways to spend as little as possible!
    I'm long past the time when I thought about spending in this game. I'm even debating on quitting elite, and just enjoying the company of my friends.

    Comment


    • MareZ
      MareZ commented
      Editing a comment
      WTF from 14 to 7? Well what else to expect from PG. Another great idea with huge potential ruined.
      Back to rioting about diluted gold chest contents...

  • #18
    Well I was pretty close, I predicted 14 to 5 to match defense consumables. They were a bit more generous. I saw it coming and warned everyone right away, hope you all took advantage

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    • Munt415
      Munt415 commented
      Editing a comment
      I wish I could. But oh wait it's only live for a portion of the player base.

  • #19

    EggToken has said that they had a few purposes with this 'beta' (perhaps calling it a limited release data collection trial would be less offensive to some?).
    A) to check for UI issues like the slider bug that they fixed
    B) to gather a lot of data on just what items players purchase and dust
    C) to use that data to adjust and fine tune the dust amounts and costs according to the actions of real, live, in-game players in the real, live game economy

    If they are smart (and I would hope that is the case) they should be collecting reams of all sorts of data, not only what items are hot 'sellers' and dustables, but what level accounts tend to dust and purchase what items, what items tend to be bought and sold more during what events, etc etc.

    If they see, for example, that players above level 100 routinely dust base boosts, but lower levels do not, that means that lower levels do not have as many to spare or value them higher. On the other hand, if base boosts comprise the majority of what players at all levels are dusting, then they need to reexamine how many of these things are given out, as Azure and Kittens have suggested. Hmm. Could PG not use this data to adjust the drop tables for chests based on the level of the player? just a thought.

    The beta testers are the guinea pigs for this process. We may have a mild brief advantage over the general populace when it comes to certain items, but it's also equally possible that we are getting screwed by unfavorable rates that will be corrected when it goes live for everyone. I was glad to read EggToken say that the tuning that is happening now will not continue after the release of the shop. Can you imagine the B#$%^ing that would happen if they spontaneously changed rates and values for everyone playing the game?

    I think they were rather wise in selecting a random selection of players of differing activity levels, account levels, and league. This gives them the broadest and truest picture of the economy as a whole, not just the fat cats at the high end of the spectrum, and should lead to the most well balanced Salvage Shop tool for _all_ players.

    All in all, I am looking forward to this tool being available on my non-beta accounts.

    I'd like to close by seconding MareZ 's suggestion of having other things available for purchase in the salvage shop that can drop from chests: mystic fragments, egg tokens, inner fires, energy packs, miracles, valor, etc. While it would be more timely to link their availability for purchase to the event(s) that they are used in, it might be better to have them randomly available for those who actually plan ahead.
    Lead Pyroclast - Built2Burn

    Comment


    • Jeff8682
      Jeff8682 commented
      Editing a comment
      I am sorry but the rates are currently plain and simple PATHETIC. There is nothing to pin down and the player base has known it for awhile. The values of certain drops have been lowered and more items added to possible options to the point where it is pointless to even buy chests in hopes of getting the items you need. I am sure players would totally understand having to "pin down" new rates that were better than the horrible rates(3% roughly for any valuable legendary drop) they currently receive. Also, PG could just save everyone the hastle of pinning down the rate by being TRANSPARENT and posting the probability of each drop but this would inhibit their ability to lower them as needed to increase revenue.

    • Kittens
      Kittens commented
      Editing a comment
      Amen on the showing of actual drop rates. Transparency and all that. Also, it allows variability of drop rates and more player agency in actually choosing when to open chests. Posting the drop rates would preemptively clear up any and all confusion about it.

    • MareZ
      MareZ commented
      Editing a comment
      EggToken there is no luck, just probabilities. If I only open a handful of chests and have bad results it may be bad luck, but there are drop rates for every item and a 12% droprate for base boosts is what EVERYONE complains about and the reason that there are too many in the game.
      See post #1 and #8 of this Item Percentages Thread.

  • #20
    Salvage shop in current form is kind of useless.... only salvage 3 times in beta. Once it goes live, it's probably jut something i use every 6 months. You get penalized for salvaging and penalize again for exchanging. Having a base boosted for a full year is probably worth more then salvaging those boost for something useful.

    you salvage hundreds of items to get 6 items you want? That's laughable

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    • Mechengg
      Mechengg commented
      Editing a comment
      I think you need to maths a bit better lol. Check out the sell and buy rates I have in my other thread and you can calculate out the rates yourself, it certainly isn't 200:6 lol

  • #21
    When can the rest of the player base that isn't in the beta expect to see this new content? Personally I have not been in any betas as this one was random and the last one my team didn't want to join. The world map doesn't sound like it'll be out anytime soon and I really want something new that I can actually use so I'd really appreciate it if you can just give us am estimate as to when we might see the salvage shop in the game.
    Last edited by Munt415; 05-08-2017, 04:44 AM.

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    • EggToken
      EggToken commented
      Editing a comment
      Checked in with the team today and there's still a few factors that still need work. I'll let you guys know when I hear more news on it.

    • Munt415
      Munt415 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for the response

  • #22
    Soooo we ever actually getting this or is it just going to sit in beta for forever like the boats?

    Comment


    • MareZ
      MareZ commented
      Editing a comment
      EggToken it's been 3 weeks, it would be great to get some up to date info or even an ETA.

    • MareZ
      MareZ commented
      Editing a comment
      EggToken and another week went by. No news for one month now.

  • #23
    If the purpose of the exchange shop is to get rid of junk items for items we can use any chance you guys can add items we can use? After 2 weeks all I dee in the shop is the same junk I sold.

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    • #24
      lol It's amazing how something so useful can be turned into a pointless addition.
      Wouldn't have thought something like this would take so long to implement either.
      I guess it's all about tweaking the values to make sure we get pointless returns.

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      • #25
        On the bright side I'm finally upgrading my forge to level 6 since there have been no good drops for me in the past week and a half either.

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        • #26
          Originally posted by SilentOne View Post
          I guess it's all about tweaking the values to make sure we get pointless returns.
          yes, it certainly seems as if the primary purpose of the salvage shop beta is to gather data so that they can see what players want to get rid of most, and nerf the value of those items in the exchange, and determine which items the players purchase the most, and increase the cost of those and/or reduce the number available and/or occurrence.



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          • Panda
            Panda commented
            Editing a comment
            Basically, we are participating in screwing ourselves...classic haha

          • Sandberg74
            Sandberg74 commented
            Editing a comment
            All those in the salvage shop beta, please sell all your timers and lightning resists. And buy a tons of poison resists.

          • Mechengg
            Mechengg commented
            Editing a comment
            Resists (no matter the type) have never changed price, sorry Sandberg

            Already on selling my 1min timers to trade up for 12hr ones at a reduced cost

        • #27
          EggToken
          Do you need help about feedbacks or why it needs so long ? Isnt the agorithm ready to exchange some items to others... Fire/ice shards was in past useless for some big spenders, and we wished against that goldchest items different type of goldchest items as option too.

          Can you give the information about the current situation... what will be ? I know many many problems at all, but it should be done one by one, dont you think so.

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          • #28
            Coming up on three months since the Salvage Shop went into beta. EggToken how much more 'rebalancing' is needed before this gets released game-wide?

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            • #29
              Originally posted by Dravoz View Post
              Coming up on three months since the Salvage Shop went into beta. EggToken how much more 'rebalancing' is needed before this gets released game-wide?
              Quite a bit. We're still not entirely happy with some aspects of it. Fixing this is a goal of ours in the coming quarter, so stay tuned for more changes.

              Comment


              • Dravoz
                Dravoz commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks Jared. Appreciate the response

              • MareZ
                MareZ commented
                Editing a comment
                Coming quarter? So half a year to fine tune and nerf dust values?
                If the salvage shop beta needs half a year, the world map will never see the sunlight...

            • #30
              EggToken Are you going to be bringing back 12 hour expedites to the dialy salvage shop. Its been a long time and as far as value for me goes, is where all my dust is going to go. Expedites can be extremely beneficial in all parts of the game so getting them back into the rotation is a must...for me at least. Prices, im not going to complain about cuz at least I can turn stuff i never use into something useful so its worth it to me, even if others think the prices are outrageous. So please consider that there are a lot of people who might want this choice rather than completely taking it away from us altogether.

              Comment


              • UnseatedDonkey
                UnseatedDonkey commented
                Editing a comment
                I agree that all items/boosts/spells should be included, even if that means they have extortionate prices. At least they would be available, take them or leave them.
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