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Breeding progression - Needs urgent intervention

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  • Breeding progression - Needs urgent intervention

    With the introduction of Obsidian tier (too soon!) I think we have reached a point where if something drastic isn’t done to progression, and soon, we will have a scenario where the game disjuncts from the whales vs the rest, which is a big issue

    This is a long discussion, so if you want the TL;DR part, read the follow-up posts instead and give suggestions of your own.

    1. Definitions

    The current issue is that there is a group of people spending high amounts of money fast, from here on referred to as “whales”, which need content to spend money on. PG as a sound business model needs to feed them new content, that allows them to keep on spending.

    Hence the natural cycle of new dragons --> feed event ---> fort event, etc.

    Two other groups of players are in game as well, spenders and non-spenders.

    Spenders make up the majority of the higher leagues (Sapphire and Diamond), and is the “base” of which the whales feed/compete against. Put it another way, without them, the whales would have no game to play and would move on.

    The non-spenders make up the rest of the teams, generally, as a non-spender you will get stuck in the low 100’s, at roughly mid sapphire tier or lower. This group of players makes up the majority of platinum and lower tiers.


    2. Perspectives

    The perspectives that can be looked at from various viewpoints, all affecting the game for the whole player base.

    2.1 The Whale perspective

    As a high spender, they basically have 3 goals (excluding the obvious things like friends, fun etc. Hopefully most players have that in mind)
    1. Have all the new content as fast as possible, irrespective of cost
    2. Be able to kill anything
    3. Not be able to be killed by most players in game


    If no new content is released for an extended period of time, they get bored and move on.
    Similarly, if no new content is released, a fair percentage of other players catch up, and defeats (b) & (c)

    2.2 The Diamond conundrum

    For simplicity sake, the top is discussed, but it applies fairly equally to say Diamond 2, Sapphire 1 etc.

    At the top end of the spectrum, Diamond is a very competitive space. It focusses heavily on wars, and the strategy/skill involved in playing.

    Diamond players have the following goals in mind
    1. Win wars
    2. Win wars? Ok seriously, let me rephrase and say, “Have the ability to significantly contribute to wars for their team”
    3. Be able to successfully defend their bases during wars, if done properly and setup properly

    In order to achieve (a) they need dragons that with skillful flying, can 5-flame a base while defended, and be able to successfully defend bases against skillful adversaries if defended well.

    In order to achieve (b) You need the balance of player lvl vs. achievable dragons vs. achievable defense

    In other words: if you are say a lvl 230 player, you need to be able to get relevant dragons, that can contribute to wars, without feeling like you are a detriment to your guild.

    A prime example used to be Hauheset, which sadly, has been used as a Crux for too long – not a player crux – a crux to say level 200+ players are still relevant to high-level wars.

    For sake of argument, let us assume Hauheset isn’t viable post new tower release this coming fort.

    In order to achieve (c) you need to have towers that when properly setup, have a reasonable chance to defend against fairly relevant level attackers. In other words, a lvl 250 player, should have the reasonable expectation with a decently built base, that he could defend against a level 220-300 player, with 2-3 defenders present.


    ** The problem here**

    MANY players at level 220-250 are close to becoming irrelevant in Diamond 1.

    Essentially lvl 50 towers were a BIG step up (aka a base full of lvl 45-47 towers is not remotely as difficult as a base with 1 island full of 50's)
    If you weren't at emerald yet, you are S.O.L trying to take these down, simply will not happen. (I don't mean facerolling kinnarus through an undefended poorly setup base) - D1 defended bases.

    Previously, a great flyer with Hauheset could setup a base well, for the backer to take it out. You felt like you weren't a detriment to your team.

    The fact that you could ONLY help with hauheset, is a different discussion all together.

    So now, tower levels are probably heading to 52 with the new fort, which means anything but Emerald and Obs will be irrelevant, essentially taking many many players in Diamond and shifting them to the "charity" pile --- teams that keep them on, is doing so because they are being nice, the actual team member is almost a detriment to the group. So unless you mid emerald, you are a detriment. This shouldn't be !

    Lvl 220-250 players in Diamond have worked their asses off to be there, and to matter. Many of them are now sitting in a situation where they will take 6 weeks, to breed some stupid dragon like Avalanche/Renard/Gloomclaw followed by another and another, before they can get a Emerald that is good enough to take on 52 towers. So 4-6 months? And guess what .... Ruby tier, Diamond tier, F knows what tier will be out then already, repeating the cycle.

    Really?




    2.3 Spenders and non-spender issues

    I’m clumping these together, as they are similar, spenders issues are in a slightly higher league / at a slightly higher level, but essentially similar


    What spenders aim for is primarily relevance. They don’t expect to be able to get the shiny new dragon on release day, but the expectation is there to be able to keep up with progression, albeit 1 tier behind.

    In other words, they should be completing tiers at the rate new tiers release, but just behind the curve a little.

    As emerald releases, they should have bred a garnet legendary or two, and be about to breed a mythic.

    As emerald mythic releases they should be completing garnet, and as they enter emerald, obsidian should be on the horizon.

    The above is working off the assumption of max participation. In other words, very active, high league (saph1 or higher), spenders, which do well in all events, and push hard to get the maximum farmed. These are the guys and gals that reset breeding token missions 20x a day to farm out as many eggs as possible etc.

    Non-spenders are another kettle of fish. They aim for relevance and fun. They are aware they will never have the latest tier, or perhaps even the tier just before that, however, they need two things to keep them playing:
    1. Progression
    2. Relevance vs. equal level spenders

    Non-spenders are what keeps bases around for whales to farm off, be part of guilds of, etc.

    As such they are a vital part of the community to be considered as well. And, although they don’t expect to get the latest and greatest dragon, they still need to be in a position where they can contribute and progress. The major issue here is progression. When it takes 2-3 months of playing to get a new dragon, and said dragon is utterly useless and only useful for following a breeding path, to get another utterly useless dragon 3 months later --à motivation is lost and they quit.

    This is the major issue with Sapphire tier onwards

    Someone that has played this game non-stop for 2 years without spending, is in the high 100’s low 200s. They are coming up against Dark Flak towers and soon Fire Flak towers. To spend 2-3 months breeding, to get say Chompa/Mehaten/Iteru is demoralizing, frustrating and players feel cheated – and rightly so.

    Another problem is soon players will not be able to farm content at their own level. If you are say level 150, with early sapphire dragons, and your seasonals limited to pre/at sapphire level, you will soon find that bases with equivalent level flak/fireflak etc setups will no longer be viable. Also, you will soon start running into hard walls, where no matter your skill, you will not be able to defeat certain bases.

    An example would be if lvl 52 towers came out now, and you are stuck in garnet tier. You will probably run into lvl 240 bases with an island full of lvl 52 towers ----> gg.
    Last edited by gox1201; 07-28-2017, 05:40 AM.

  • #2
    3. Problems (summarized) and solutions

    So what are the main issues? Well its simple
    1. Difference between progression up to Sapphire vs Sapphire and onwards
    2. Lack of sufficient scaling for egg token drops as levels progress
    3. Massive timer requirement for hatching dragons
    4. Rigid breeding paths forcing players to breed rubbish dragons

    1. Pre vs Post sapphire

    So pre-sapphire, you frequently bred 2-3 dragons at once, especially the “breeder” dragons, and sometimes even multiple end of line dragons (kelvin/Vulcan e.g.)

    Sapphire and beyond its 1- 1-1-1etc. This creates a massive artificial bottleneck. Now the point is just that, at that point it was endgame, and you wanted to delay progress. This is fine (do the same with Obsidian), however as soon as a new tier is released, this should have been changed, to allow multiples to be bred at once, of the early dragons, and as we get 2 tiers on, multiples of the later in the tier dragons.

    2. Lack of scaling of egg token drops

    This has two components – daily missions and chest contents

    Daily missions should scale the reward per level. This is basic math and shouldn’t be that hard to figure out at all. A simple multiplier based on your level group should do just fine. 0-50 = 1x, 51-100; 1.50, 101-150; 2x, etc etc etc. Multiplier to be discussed, but it needs to increase significantly.

    Chest contents – now this is a major issue. Gold chests have been dropping the same (or less!) egg tokens per drop for the last forever. If I opened a gold chest in December, I would have gotten 1.1k/3k egg tokens if that was the drop.

    Number of egg tokens required from Red-Max tier was somewhat around 1million (thumb sucking from memory), we are now up to over 3 million tokens needed. That’s a 200% odd increase in less than 9 months. With hardly any compensatory

    3. Massive timer requirement for hatching dragons

    Once again, this is understandable for max tier – you basically want to slow progress for cutting edge dragons, and also get spenders to spend money if they want it faster. Good business model.

    However, when a low lvl player (say level 90), has his first platinum in the cooker, say rubbish dragon like Kulan, and it is going to take him 21 days to hatch there is a huge problem. If he hatches it with speedup timers, he screws his progression for fort, if he doesn’t he cant progress in breeding.

    Essentially what should be done is the timer requirement for all non-top line dragons (e.g. Emerald and down currently), should be like Seasonal dragons -18-24 hours; The very top line (Obsidian), can be the days you are pushing at the moment.

    This can simply be tied to current incubator level; If current dragon egg = max level incubator available = long hatching time; if not 18hours.

    4. Rigid breeding paths

    I’m not 100% sure why this rigid breeding path setup is being followed. It overcomplicates things, makes it very tricky for most players to understand, and tonnes of them end up going wrong screwing themselves over in the long run.

    A much more simplistic model would be something along the line of


    Breed “legendary” --- 100k egg tokens
    Once completed you pick the legendary dragon you want from that tier

    Breed “mythic” this option becomes available once say 4 legendaries have been bred (or 2 or 3); 200k egg tokens; once completed you pick the mythic.

    Once the above minimums have been met, breeding subsequent legendaries cost say 50-25-12k; and subsequent Mythics – 100-50-25

    This is for all tiers that are not the top tier. Each time a new tier releases, you cut the previous tier by 10%

    E.g. emerald 90%, garnet 80%, sapphire 70% etc of release cost.


    The advantage of a system like the one above is multiple
    1. Simplicity
    2. Not as punishing for mistakes. Lets say I originially chose to go for a warrior garnet mythic, yet I realised it was a mistake. This currently locks me into a path that takes months to correct, costs me 300-600k tokens more than someone that “lucked” out by say picking a hunter path.
    3. It allows players to get dragons they want, instead of feeling they getting forced to breed something just because
    4. It allows easy later tuning of the progression, by simply following an percentage base system as tiers release.

    Other
    • There have been a few very relevant posts recently, e.g. the suggestion by Red and company regarding the new purchasable account status that adds modifiers to breeding related in-game interactions. This discussion should be ADDED to those suggestions, not replace them.

    In summary
    • Breeding progression is neck-deep in trouble
    • Waiting another 6-12 months to “see” to “perhaps” adjust things just isn’t good enough
    • You need action, and you need it now.
    • You need multiple things adjusted. Small tweaks at this point in time is too little too late. Small adjustments might have worked 12 months ago ; not anymore.
    Last edited by gox1201; 07-28-2017, 03:11 AM. Reason: Formatting issues

    Comment


    • elements1
      elements1 commented
      Editing a comment
      tbf I can still take maxxed bases with hauh and frost/morph

  • #3
    I do think breeding should be more flexible, but not quite "breed generic type" flexible. By that, I mean specific pairs still make specific dragons, but also that it's possible for any combo of 2 legendaries to breed a mythic, possible for any combination of mythic + legendary to breed a next tier legendary. Maybe even two at once. You wouldn't have perfect control over it if you were at the leading edge, but you also shouldn't have to make a choice that potentially wastes 200k+ tokens, with no way of knowing which way is right. Basically, it should always be possible to progress through the next tier with 2 legendary + 1 myth, and then have backbreeds fill in the rest. Whales still breed them all the expensive way to get them first, so that's how they can be charged exorbitant amounts of egg tokens and normal active/spenders can still stay a half tier behind if the whales are buying something like 3x the tokens.

    Comment


    • #4
      I think your post sums it up "the state of play" pretty well. I think there defiantly needs to be some changes.

      Comment


      • #5
        i'm f2p and i hear ya, how long should it take for us to get -a- dragon? i'm with ya though, 140,000 at current token rate is a bit....not appreciated. increase mystic frag payout too?

        Comment


        • #6
          I'm non-spender, low 200lvl with 1 garnet and no chance to see another any time soon. After more than 2 years playing this game, and I really really love it, unfortunately for me (and the 90% of my team) it's going to be unplayable... gox1201 you said it all, hope PG people will realize what are they doing to the game before it's too late

          Comment


          • #7
            Being at 19X and could not agree more with this gox1201 vision of actual play.

            Comment


            • #8
              That only issue I have with any of what you said is the breakdown of spenders. Leaving out the heavy spenders whom spend to get the top content after the whales do. We work our butts off to get the top stuff and spend to make up what we don't get to max events. We are the upper 200's to lower 300's. most of us have short bases with higher lvl towers because we know we could never go passed that. We would usually have 2 mythics of the top tier by the time the next tier is released and can breed at least one of the new tier on release.

              Our problem is that now now we can't even keep up. On the release of obsidian, I had only 2 legendary emeralds and just bred my first mythic this week. It'll take me another month and a half before I get my first obsidian dragon.

              As it is right now, the heavy spenders can't keep up and are being disincentivised to continue to keep spending at the lvl that we do.
              x7DeadlyGoobsx

              Comment


              • FangTheWise
                FangTheWise commented
                Editing a comment
                even one of the best spenders in the game says its fubar....

            • #9
              I agree with a large majority of this.

              Goober said it well when he brought up the fact that there are more levels of spenders. I want to mention that there are also more levels of moderate and non-spenders that needs to be brought up with time played. I have been playing for over 2 years and spend slightly on one account, but not my others. My largest is a level 251 that only has two Legendary Emerald dragons (haven't bred this event yet). With my favorite alt (level 138) I find that the best way to enjoy the game is to basically not build. I hatched Hauheset this event and will not level up until I hatch Frostbiter as well. This is the only way I feel lower levels can enjoy the game. Even then, my 138 is on my Sapphire 1 team and has a ruby-for-elite account. It take a lot of patience. I'm also a "spend your rubies on missions" type of player.

              I have been doing a lot of thinking and reflecting on breeding paths. Here are what I believe the major issues to be (some an echo of the OP):
              1. Two dragons of the same tier are required to breed together (e.g. you cannot breed one Sapphire with one Platinum or Garnet).
              2. There is almost always a single offspring (only exceptions being things like getting a Mythic Garnet also breeds a Legendary Sapphire or the extra expensive triple breed in Emerald).
              3. Logical backbreeds are missing (like we had with Gold and below and Quetz).


              I am against many heavy catch up mechanics, but I believe the breeding system was excellent until Sapphire. Multiple options, multiple parent combinations, the whole 9 yards. I don't think "free breeding" is the logical answer here, but here are my thoughts:
              1. Open up breeding by allowing dragons of different tiers to breed together (e.g. a Garnet and a Sapphire). This should allow you mostly to breed the worthless dragons (Iteru, Jul, Renard, Kerbos, etc) but also open up more opportunities for all dragons.
              2. Add in some double breeds, especially in cases where you are using a dragon from the next tier or two up.
              3. Add. Logical. Backbreeds. An example of not quite logical includes a recent Avalanche backbreed: Deci + Kyrule. The original parents for Deci includes Avalanche, Deci is an A&A Emerald where Kyrule is an Icicle Emerald. It just. The backbreed isn't actually helpful. At all.



              I will never claim to be the "be all end all" of breeding, but I do care a lot about this game and I am always willing to go the extra mile. If there is any way I could actually help with breeding tables, suggestions for parents and backbreeds, please ask. I want to help.
              Love Red,

              Leader of Rulith
              Lover of Spreadsheets



              Helpful Threads:
              How to Build YOUR Ultimate Breeding Path
              Red's Breeding Paths: Sapphire to Emerald

              Rulith's Website:
              All Breeding Paths
              Red's Guide to Flying Hunters
              Dragon's, etc.

              Social:
              Twitter - @TheRedDelilah
              Twitch

              Comment


              • #10
                I replied to another thread on the same topic with my thoughts: http://wardragons.pocketgems.com/for...st-to-complain


                My personal opinion is that we don't give anyone the guarantee that they can be a top player or a top team -- we don't assume that every single player can or should be "the winner". This is definitely not a game where "every single person gets to win" --- that's not one of our goals for how the game should be. Being at the top means that you've done some combination of really high activity, diplomacy, team management, coordination, skill and money. That's what it takes to be at the top. If you don't think that's for you, what we do is provide a game which is actually really fun even if you're in platinum or gold tier.

                People who want to be at that top tier of gameplay self-select that it's something that they find valuable and want to do. What we do try our best to make a goal of the game is saying that every point along that curve of getting stronger and playing at your own self-selected level feels fun and rewarding. Working your way through the red tier and getting Kinnara is fun --- even if youre just sitting in bronze tier. Winning your first wars and working into gold/platinum tier with your team is fun --- even if you only login once or twice a day to do your war attacks. There's tons of ways to have fun in this game and have without spending money, without playing 24h a day ---- but yes --- you're not going to be at the very top of the leaderboard. That's for the people who self-selected into deciding that's something they really want and are willing to do what it takes to be there. And yes, over time some of those people will decide that they don't want to "keep it up" and some other set of people will overtake their position on the leaderboard as they dial it back. In my opinion, that's OK -- and just what happens when you say "someone (not everyone) has to win" --- there needs to be some vector which they are out performing the other people.

                Statements saying that you "can't progress or have fun without playing all day" are pretty much incorrect. The game still works fine and is pretty fun if you don't play like a superhardcore player (and this is how a huge portion of the playerbase chooses to play). Yes, you probably can't cut it in Sapphire/Diamond -- definitely true. Those teams will kick you out. But if you login 2-3 times a day and do a couple of attacks each time you will definitely finish your war attacks, have a little time to chat with your team and make some progress on building towers and towards breeding the next dragon. I've personally definitely had periods of ~6 months where I was really busy and just played enough to do my war attacks, collect my daily tokens, breed, get some XP. Sometimes I did my event activities, but honestly not always. Playing game like this is actually pretty fun and not very time intensive -- you still win a new dragon every couple of weeks and level the ones you have up every few days.

                We definitely don't guarantee that every single player can compete in diamond league. Not everyone gets to win. That doesn't mean the game doesn't work or isn't fun: There's thousands of teams in lower leagues who have rivalries and drama with the other teams they are competing against at their own level.

                Pretty related: In my own personal opinion no one in the game is ever guaranteed to reach the top of the content and stay there for any specific amount of time. I personally think that in the ideal world there is some set of dragons that no one in the game has yet attained. This goal isn't to have a game where large portions of the players have "beat it" and are sitting at the end with max power. Everyone should continually always have something to keep building and striving for in the ideal world --- and, in my own personal opinion, if they happen to max out they don't have any guarantee that they get to stay in that state for any specific period of time before more content comes out. I realize that this is actually in opposition to the things PGJared has stated and might be the opposite of the official company position, but it's my own personal opinion. IMO, in an ideal world there are so many dragons that no one ever maxes out and there's always more to get and look forward to -- no one ever is at a state where they run out of that they want dragons and aren't bothering to work towards anything.


                Here's a thought experiment: Let's say the game was launched in 2015 with 1,000 tiers containing 20,000 dragons. Even as a harcore player, it takes over 30 years to complete getting all the dragons from all the tiers. I think that would be great. I wouldn't have any problem at all with that hypothetical situation. The game wasn't intended to be "beat". Similarly, I don't have any problem with a new tier coming out before many people have finished the previous tier of dragons --- that's just one incremental step towards the hypothetical situation.
                Last edited by CampusLifer; 07-28-2017, 03:59 PM.

                Comment


                • Indi123
                  Indi123 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I find it very disrespectful that this same patronising spiel keeps getting copy/pasted. It's the equivalent of putting your hand up in front of someone's face during a row, rolling your eyes and going 'blah blah blah'.

                • Dravoz
                  Dravoz commented
                  Editing a comment
                  "I've personally definitely had periods of ~6 months where I was really busy and just played enough to do my war attacks, collect my daily tokens, breed, get some XP. Sometimes I did my event activities, but honestly not always. Playing game like this is actually pretty fun and not very time intensive -- you still win a new dragon every couple of weeks and level the ones you have up every few days."

                  You are so out of touch it's actually rather sad.

                • Bevo
                  Bevo commented
                  Editing a comment
                  @CampusLifer
                  Doesn’t understand and even if they did PG signs the checks so we’re not going to get a decent response. It’s kinda like the amazing responses we get from Support copy/paste BS here...... I am just waiting for the diamond plated gold emerald tier to come out next week 2 finally give up on the game. Open up breeding paths it used to be fun now it’s just 1-2 crap paths. Good talk though👍🏻 Don’t bother responding I can copy/paste my own response.
                  Last edited by Bevo; 08-19-2017, 02:08 PM.

              • #11
                First off, I am a big supporter of those who spend having the best of the best. As a former big spender of other games, around $1000 a month or so, if others wanted to outspend me to have better ranks, more power to them, I support it. I very much agree with CampusLifer that not everyone is meant to have the best dragons and compete in the best leagues, she's absolutely right about that. But the point she is missing which was spot on in the OP's post was that there are different levels of players, and to expect casual players to sit around waiting for 6 months trying to correct a poor breeding path, or taking months to breed a dragon that is 3 or 4 tiers behind the top tier, a dragon that he doesn't even want but needs to breed the dragon he does want, well that's just not nearly as fun as one might think.

                With my experience in gaming, I've seen several games come and go, as well as some games that you swore it was nearing the end and the developers found a way (usually by listening to it's base) to make it fun again and prosper for a very long time. I don't agree with everything gox1201 proposed but he had some very real ideas for solutions to the some obvious problems.. I only hope PG will actually take a look more closely at it rather than copy and paste the speech above by campuslifer and never look at this thread again. Of all the whining and complaining I've seen browsing these forums, this OP is actually really good at addressing most of the real issues.
                Last edited by DonovanZ; 07-28-2017, 05:00 PM.

                Comment


                • #12
                  CampusLifer - I drew a picture for you, to help illustrate my point.

                  3nmQcHb.jpg?1.jpg

                  To the 5 Legendary Platinums, there are 35 different breeding combinations.
                  • To Quetz, there are 3 different breeding combinations.
                  • To Kelvin, there are 10 different breeding combinations.
                  • To Rizar, there are 14 different breeding combinations.
                  • To Kaiju, there are 11 different breeding combinations.
                  • To Vulcan, there are 7 different breeding combinations.
                  To the 6 Legendary Sapphires, there are 6 different breeding combinations.
                  • To Chompa, there is 1 different breeding combination.
                  • To Iteru, there is 1 different breeding combination.
                  • To Gorgonus, there is 1 different breeding combination.
                  • To Anapa, there is 1 different breeding combination.
                  • To Scorchil, there is 1 different breeding combination.
                  • To Sekhem, there is 1 different breeding combination.
                  To the 3 Mythic Sapphires, there are 3 different breeding combinations.
                  • To Mehaten, there is 1 different breeding combination.
                  • To Hauheset, there is 1 different breeding combination.
                  • To Apophet, there is 1 different breeding combination.

                  This does not include backbreeds in any way, shape, or form. I understand that there is no Rare and Epic classification in Sapphire, but this should be no excuse.



                  Legendary Platinum Pairs not taken advantage of for Sapphire in any way:
                  • Quetz+Vulcan (Cryzan 75%, parents make up the other 25%)
                  • Kelvin+Rizar (Jagra 75%, parents make up the other 25%)
                  • Rizar+Kaiju (Jagra 65%, Kulan 10%, parents make up the other 25%)
                  • Kaiju+Vulcan (Kulan 63%, Kelvin 12%, parents make up the other 25%)


                  I hope this picture accurately illustrates just how much of a brick wall, allowing for no leeway or creativity, Sapphire+ tiers are.
                  Love Red,

                  Leader of Rulith
                  Lover of Spreadsheets



                  Helpful Threads:
                  How to Build YOUR Ultimate Breeding Path
                  Red's Breeding Paths: Sapphire to Emerald

                  Rulith's Website:
                  All Breeding Paths
                  Red's Guide to Flying Hunters
                  Dragon's, etc.

                  Social:
                  Twitter - @TheRedDelilah
                  Twitch

                  Comment


                  • Texreb
                    Texreb commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Like like like like like like like...one of the few people on forums to listen too..
                    Last edited by Texreb; 07-29-2017, 09:07 AM.

                  • gaza8143
                    gaza8143 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Love the chart! I have made a few of these in the past and its taken 20 versions to get it right so I appreciate the time to compile it.

                  • Lutrus
                    Lutrus commented
                    Editing a comment
                    CampusLifer EggToken Echo @pgjared
                    Any response to this post and to her post above? It's incredibly detailed and thought out. It also addresses some of the points pgjared mentioned in his obsidian feedback post. I don't want to have quality posts like these get lost in the background.

                • #13
                  This from CampusLifer
                  "Even as a harcore player, it takes over 30 years to complete getting all the dragons from all the tiers. I think that would be great. I wouldn't have any problem at all with that hypothetical situation."

                  Says everything I need to read!

                  Wow! Time wasted, money lost!

                  Then in another thread we have PGJared saying he's concerned about the current toxicity on the forum.
                  Well Hell if some of your staff (hypothetically) think a 30 year dragon breeding progression is acceptable we're living on different planets!

                  Comment


                  • Flames0
                    Flames0 commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Even when the game crashes and burns because players stop spending, they'll not see the problem, because that game psychology textbook MUST be right. Sad state of affairs.

                • #14
                  The point is the longer you play, the less you can progress per month without spending (time or money).
                  At the start of the game the tokens for breeding a dragon required was 60, with the ability to choose many paths.
                  The amount of tokens to breed when level 150 plus etc is potentially 220000 tokens and they drop at the same rate! Missions give the same amount regardless of level.

                  So when a breeding event rolls around, instead of getting multiple dragons and having choice, you may not be able to complete a new dragon at all, and the choice is taken away because the limitations on combinations has decreased. So nothing new to look forward to for perhaps 2 months if you don't spend time or money to have some progression.
                  Seasonal dragons give some variation but again without spending you cannot reach the evolution stones to make it worthwhile.

                  IMO there needs to be some change or players will reach a level where progression is too slow and become bored (looks in the mirror) and consider other games to play.

                  Comment


                  • #15
                    "Playing game like this is actually pretty fun and not very time intensive -- you still win a new dragon every couple of weeks and level the ones you have up every few days."- @CampusLifer
                    This is the comment that illustrates the point. It IS possible to play this way for several months IN THE BEGINNING. And it IS fun. And those of us sitting on the other side of the Sapphire BRICK WALL where we aren't leveling our main dragons for months at a time just want to go back to the point where we feel SOME sort of progression on a monthly basis. I'm not asking to have the latest tier of dragons the second they come out. I just want to be able to keep moving along at a reasonable rate in my own little Sapphire/Garnet world, so I have some nugget to look forward to each breeding and fort event. I'm not asking to keep the pace the same as it is in the beginning, that would be unsustainable. But waiting months at a time to level my top dragons is unreasonable as well. I think egg token reward scaling based on level (in missions and chests) makes the most sense to fix this problem.
                    Last edited by CaptainC; 07-30-2017, 01:44 PM.

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                    • Cameron90
                      Cameron90 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      I'm convinced that CampusLifer doesn't actually play the game. Her answers don't sound like something someone would say if they had actually been actively playing a long time.
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