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Dragon costs/ breeding tokens later levels

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  • Dragon costs/ breeding tokens later levels

    Suggesting PG scales the amount of breeding tokens you get from missions to go up with your level similar to XP. Explaination to follow. Please support.

    This is something that has been bothering me the past couple months as I noticed with many others who get to my lvl range around 150 that your progress screeches to a halt! You go from breeding 2-3(or more) dragons per breeding event(assuming you save all your tokens) to being 1 if any once you reach the sapphire tier of dragons. My player status has never dropped below very active, I play on a sapphire II team that always ranks well in events and I make 80-100k tokens per month for breeding events. This used to be plenty to progress my account at a steady pace and maintain dragons strength to go along with my level progression. But now 100k tokens is half of the the next dragon I need so I am now waiting 2 full months/events for 1 dragon and still struggle to get that. I know players use different tactics like speeding up 1 hr balloon missions with 100% token boost but even at that you are paying a lot of rubies for minor progress when you look at the amount of tokens needed to achieve emerald tier dragons and there is already the next tier being released! Basically I am stating that you go from constant progression to nothing without investing a lot of real money or speeding up 1hr missions and spending all of your hard earned rubies on tokens leaving nothing for chests which are important to maintain competitiveness in other events not focused on breeding. So your options become spend money, cripple your account in all other aspects and focus solely on breeding or wait months for minor progress( 1 year to obtain emerald at my pace).

    There needs to be a solution other then spending money to advance. I'm not saying make things easy and let me get emerald in the next 2 months but at least give me a way to maintain a rate of gathering tokens as a very active player so I can obtain at least 1 dragon per event(still puts me on pace for emerald in 6-8 months). My suggestion to do this without upsetting the lower levels balance to the game is make egg token missions scale up with level like other aspects of the game sucks as XP and resource sending. This would benefit all players not just free playing players so should not upset any balance to the game and would allow higher level players to feel like progression is possible without grinding away for a year for any real progress. I see many many players with account 150-250 range( some even higher) stuck in the sapphire breeding tier. This to me shows a complete imbalance, I know some players make bad choices levelling up too fast and ignoring their dragons progress but many just can't make the amount of tokens needed to maintain proper progress.

    I have already discuses this scaling egg token missions idea to PG support and while I feel like they just wanted me to shut up they did say they liked this idea. So if we can gain some support on this maybe they will implement it as I think this seems like a reasonable solution to assist higher lvl players without disrupting the overall flow to the game. So please support this idea and push PG to implement it.

    Long winded statement over.
    Last edited by Crackertime; 07-25-2017, 10:19 AM.

  • #2
    Yup you hit a wall at sapphire, unfortunate but its how this game is at the moment.

    I suggested a long time ago that they should scale back required egg tokens with each new tier being released. For example right now we need 700 frags for an emerald which costs about 143k tokens. If that dropped to 600 with the release of obsidian and then drops again whenever the next tier is released it will at least help those really far behind. With what i propose next week a Legendary emerald should only require 600 frags (122k tokens) and a Garnet Legendary would be down to 500 frags (102k tokens). Sure people will claim with each new tier you can back breed and such but that is not enough if you are far behind. Plus i feel it makes sense because the value of any dragon is not was is was at its initial release once a new tier comes out. That was and is my proposal but I doubt it will ever happen.


    • Crackertime
      Crackertime commented
      Editing a comment
      That would be a great idea however I feel as many players have already spent a lot of real money on those tiers that PG would be reluctant to make that change as a lot of players that have spent a lot of $$ to get past sapphire/garnet already would likely not be pleased and demand returning their wasted tokens. That is why I propose just scaling up the egg missions for everyone. Doesn't break the balance of the game and won't upset the higher players that already got through breeding those tiers since it doesn't discredit what they have done and the scaling also benefits them. No backlash on PG so they would be more likely to support this.

    • MikeGoN2GetU
      MikeGoN2GetU commented
      Editing a comment
      People always complain. I spent a lot getting those dragons already as well. But personally i would not begrudge PG if they did this. As i pointed out breeding a Garnet or sapphire dragon now is not as valuable as if you bred them when they were first released. Next week when obsidian is out emeralds wont be so great either. So why keep them the same costs? It made sense when they were the newest and the greatest. Its like buying a new car. The current 2017 models will be less as soon as the release the 2018's.

      for those that will point out back breeds. ya ya ya i know... they don't cut it though as they don't help people trying to enter the tier and get caught up.

    • Sam DragonLover
      Sam DragonLover commented
      Editing a comment
      I think the idea of revisiting beeeding costs for upper tier dragons, when a new tier is released, makes a lot of sense for both the players and PG.

      Players will see faster advancement and also be more motivated to spend.

      When a target is a long way in the distance, many will give up.
      When a target is close by, the urgency factor takes over and pocketbooks open faster.

  • #3
    Throw a like and message on our Dragon Premium proposal if you have time. The goal was to find a way for us to be able to gain more tokens that scale with activity level as well as give other dragon breeding benefits since we found that to be the big bottleneck of the game.

    PG has already responded that they saw this idea and are looking at it further, so another nudge in the right direction might help


    • #4
      I like the idea. And the 2nd tier premium account.

      PG has already discounted all future dragons by bumping up the tokens per day amount. So in some sense, they acknowledge this is an issue. This is also true when they release a new tier and allow backbreeds.

      PG has to follow a delicate balance. The top tier has to be for heavy spenders. The next tier for moderate spenders. What i think they are missing is that the next tier needs to be for limited spenders (say 50 dollars a month). They need cannon fodder for the higher levels. And the cannon fodder needs to be progressing at the same rate (tier wise ) as the big spenders. So, 6 new dragons (a tier) needs to be released when those limited spenders get 6 or 7 dragons to keep things balanced. Presently, i do not think that is happening. It is more like 4 to 5 dragons between tiers.


      • MikeGoN2GetU
        MikeGoN2GetU commented
        Editing a comment
        Sorry this is a late response but when PG bumped up the daily tokens that really did very little in the grand scheme of things. 300 to 1500 a day... that may seem like a big jump but in reality very few of our egg tokens comes from this daily allowance. Based on being in Diamond I, that extra 1200 it is still 119 days (almost 4 months) to breed a single legendary based on this increase. Given that they release a new tier every 3-4 months that daily increase is peanuts compared to the cost of breeding any dragon starting from sapphire onward.

      • Kittens
        Kittens commented
        Editing a comment
        Chests are probably the biggest source of tokens, and those have been steadily nerfed since forever. I doubt the daily increase is even enough to offset the chest nerfs over the course of a year. Never once have I seen anyone say we need more base boosts, and yet they still get added to gold chests after people are already complaining about chest dilution. They could very easily put these useless things on a rotating schedule for the theoretical 1 or 2 people that actually want them, but they don't.

    • #5
      When I was a noob, gold was the top tier, and it was intended that ftp could breed 2 gold legendaries, with the whales able to breed them all (without backbreeds) and do research. It was that top end, where whales would straight up spend 200k tokens or whatever on dragons ftp people would wait on (because they're not there yet) and backbreed for dirt cheap. A *much* cheaper path always opened up, and I mean like 1/10 price or less if you wait for backbreeds. You still had to breed the original pair, but that's 1/3 the price of breeding 2 pairs plus that odd dragon out. Platinum tier was similar, and I was actually catching up. At the rate I was going, if breeding had stayed at the same pace, I'd probably be just barely caught up right now.

      Sapphire on, this is not the case. Not only is it more expensive, there is less backbreeding. That means less of a discount, to the point it's no longer even possible to keep up. The whale advantage used to be a whole roster of the best dragons vs just having 1 or 2. Now, it's multiple tiers and increasing, to the point that hauheset is the only reason flying skill matters at all for the majority of diamond league. I say this because sapphire and even garnet dragons aren't enough to hurt a max base, so turning it into a sandpit is the only thing that makes it significantly easier for emerald tier backup, which is like 3-10 people on each team, other than maybe the top 3.


      • #6

        we would love your feedback.


        • Owlrager
          Owlrager commented
          Editing a comment
          And this is where they say "not everybody should have end game content. It should require a combination of activity, time, skill, a good team and money. Ideally there would be content that nobody in the game has yet acquired." Which I interpret as "we would like to widen the gap between mega whales and everybody else as much as humanly possible, even to the point where they cant afford top drags and every competitive player is stuck and frustrated."

        • GreenMT
          GreenMT commented
          Editing a comment
          PG is ok with us not having the best tier; the best tier is intended only for whales. I'm fine with this planning.

          However, it's becoming very hard or near impossible for average players to get second best tier or third best tier. This is disheartening to them, and will kill the game for sure.

          This problem will get worse if PG continue its way. Imagine you stuck with sapphire/ garnet tier while the Breeding Castle taunts you with Obsidian ++ tier.

      • #7
        So, just to jump in here:

        We're definitely reading all this and discussing it internally. It's our feeling that the amount of time it takes to complete a dragon tier needs to be improved, so players have a smooth experience. Whether that comes from more breeding tokens, new ways to get breeding tokens, reduced token requirements, reduced breeding requirements, alternate breeding paths, etc; remains to be seen.


        • PGJared
          PGJared commented
          Editing a comment
          I can understand the backlash, but I think lowering the price over time is a pretty common thing in most commercial efforts. Up until a certain point where a thing becomes an antique, you generally don't see the price go up over time. I personally like to wait a bit to buy certain things because I know the price will go down and I can be frugal. (That's just me though. Some folks like to have the new thing asap, which I understand and respect.)

        • Dravoz
          Dravoz commented
          Editing a comment
          We don't want to hear about your never-ending discussions. We want action. You said you were discussing this in April. Three months later and you jump in to tell us that it's being discussed. Like we should breathe a sigh of relief. And you wonder why toxicity develops amongst the player base. In reality, it's not going to make a difference to me. I'm about to walk away and consider my 12 months+ and thousands of dollars as a sunk investment. But those who remain would benefit greatly from PG actually addressing player concerns, rather than just talking about them. Think I'm being unreasonable? Take a look a this thread from February.

          Last edited by Dravoz; 08-01-2017, 04:13 PM.

        • MareZ
          MareZ commented
          Editing a comment
          PGJared I'm positively surprised that you (and/or the rest of the WD Team) are thinking about certain catch-up mechanics. Is there a rought timeline or ETA on your roadmap when something like this could be implemented and how it could look like?

      • #8
        The fact is top tier dragons are only top for 1 season (3 months), and only if you crash buy and level them (eg heavy spenders). Once the next season comes out, those dragons become sub_optimal especially when the tower levels increase.

        If the big spenders are whining about reduced costs (minor at first, and increasingly cheaper as time goes on). Then they are just not being honest that those dragons have become worthless in wars, and semi-worthless in events. The honest ones will admit that cheaper low tier dragons do not impact them in any way.

        I frankly think that PG should release each tier over 3 breeding events. 3 dragons for each breeding event (1 of each type) with the 3rd event being the 3 mythics. And i think breeding costs for old tiers should drop by %5 per breeding event. This should keep the ftp or slight spender about 2 tiers behind the heavy spenders.

        It would also allow a new moderate spender to catch up relatively quickly to be 1 tier behind the top.

        I also think that leftover eggs should be allowed to substitute for lower tier eggs in the research tree.

        And even with the above changes, we still need to get more tokens, like double or triple the current amount in event rewards. And i say event rewards, vs chests or daily tokens because those are rewards for playing the game vs logging in or buying.

        Another option would be to significantly boost to the mission eggs, say triple the amount but also double the ruby cost to speed them up. Again, this rewards those playing the game.

        And heck, for a super crazy idea, how about breeding tokens every time a dragon levels. The amount of tokens would be based on the amount of food spent to get the level. Again, focus is on rewarding teams that fly a lot and work together to feed their team's dragons.

        Ok, shoot me down Red.

        oh, one final thought. Building times for building levels and incubator times also need to scale to keep everything in balance. Not sure exactly how that might work, but i know it needs to happen.


        • #9
          If you manage to get 100K tokens a month, it would take a new player 30 months to get to the top tier. And with the current new tier every 3 months, they would be 10 tiers behind after those 30 months because it would take 30 months to catch up, 30 more months of dragons would be released. There is something extremely wrong with that picture. And with the current "double dragon attack power" trend every tier, an obsidian tier vs the newest one in 30 months will have 90 million power vs. 9.216 billion base power.

          Obsidians that have a base attack power of 90 million cost 143.5k. A sapphire dragon that is the 4th highest tier below costs 125K and has a base attack of like 7 mil. The most expensive dragon in the game, Icicle, costs 231K while emerald and obsidian mythics cost less. Eventually, people are going to get sick of this shit. And many have.

          The solution is simple. Much like EXP, food, and lumber boosts are given based on level, egg tokens and egg token missions should be scaled accordingly.


          • #10
            PG needs to work fast. People gets bored from waiting. Increase egg token payout from egg missions should be very easy to fix. PG can at lease double or triple the payout while "discussing", right?