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  • Crystalline Shield

    I am posting this question here because the last post on this issue was severely inundated with stuff that doesn't really matter. PGJared CampusLifer can you please give us an answer as to why crystalline shield has a cool down where other shields do not? I just checked and heat shield does not have a cool down when popped by a cannon (that's the only other shield I have active right now) so why does crystalline shield have this?

    Thanks in advance.

  • #2
    Previously, all spells were limited primarily by rage cost only. Cooldown time is a relatively new mechanic that we're testing out on newer spells in hopes that it will give us better tuning beyond only rage cost.

    Comment


    • Robert M.
      Robert M. commented
      Editing a comment
      If by relatively new, you mean "has always been there"...
      Freeze
      Cloak
      Self Destruct

    • EggToken
      EggToken commented
      Editing a comment
      Some spells (and shields in particular) didn't have any internal cooldown, as was referenced in the original question. The cooldown "stat" is something that we would like to append to all spells moving forward so that we can better tune spells more closely without having to change damage numbers or the mechanics behind the spell, as that takes much more time. This doesn't mean everything will have a cooldown, just that the box is there for us to adjust, but it could just be set to 0.

    • NukSooAL
      NukSooAL commented
      Editing a comment
      Would make a lot more sense to test it on Tarands white shield IMO

  • #3
    I really like this concept to be honest.

    A hunter with a shield is quite over powered, and by giving it a cooldown only after it has been popped by either 7 projectiles or by a cannon supershot forces the attacker to focus towers and take them out in a certain order. It is fun to try and skirt this issue when flying him and makes attackers analyze bases better before just randomly throwing in a run.

    Overall i think it adds a LOT of balance to this particular hunter instead of making him super OP like nightshade was.

    Comment


    • #4
      But in the end it all leads back to rage anyway. So you slap a cd on crystalline shield, now when it gets popped youre forced to take damage or hit cloak, which is just another rage drain. A rage drain that isn't on any other shield in the game. As it is, most high level bases have double mage towers at the start so you're running with minimal rage from the getgo, especially vs live defenders. Maybe this would make sense if crystalline shield was on a warrior dragon since they can take some hits and shrug it off, but on hunters its pretty awful.

      Bear, thank you for getting this back on topic...

      Comment


      • Sabin76
        Sabin76 commented
        Editing a comment
        But you glossed over the first thing Mechengg said in response, "a hunter with a shield is quite over powered." A shield is NOT cloak. A hunter's style of attack is vastly different than a warrior (where shields usually live). In order to balance this spell on a hunter, it was decided that it should have a cooldown. You can debate that the cooldown isn't necessary, but you must acknowledge that the same spells on different dragon types result in different levels of power (see: invert on hunter) first.

      • Mechengg
        Mechengg commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks Sabin. This is the point i was trying to get across, that there was now a way to mitigate damage taken by a hunter WHILE still taking down towers. That is where the power in this lies

    • #5
      I was just about to argue that a cooldown isn't needed for Crystalline Shield since it seems to be on par with Heat Shield having the same rage cost and being found mostly on top tier dragons (besides divines).

      I wrote down the pros and cons and realized that both shields might actually be balanced in theory:

      Crystalline Shield:
      2 Rage
      7sec duration
      50% beam attacks
      7 projectiles
      0sec cooldown
      ?sec cooldown if popped

      Heat Shield:
      2 Rage
      5sec duration
      40% beam attacks
      40% projectile attacks
      20% Heal
      0sec cooldown


      (values for seconds and % were taken from amoebastudios.com)

      As for projectile protection you can argue if you prefer Heat Shield's 40% over 5sec or Crystalline Shield's 7 shots over 7sec so I didn't color those.


      EggToken I think on paper both skills look great, Crystalline shield might even look slightly better.

      However if you use them in game, there are more factors such as:
      - High rate-of-fire towers such as Archers will pop Crystalline Shield in a matter of seconds
      - Crystalline shield performs much weaker on higher level bases as you need more time to kill towers and they have more time to deal damage after your shield popped
      - The shields are for different classes. A hunter with a shield that pops is often a dead hunter (unless you dodge with cloak which then is a rage drain and devalues the shield as Roarack mentioned). A warrior with a shield that heals, doesn't pop after a few shots and doesn't go on cooldown is well protected; if his shield goes he still has HP to tank and can shield again without wasting rage on dodging.


      If weaker shields on future hunters is a way to balance the supreme hunter class and trying to make warriors and sorcerers catch up then I guess it's a strategic decision that might be oaky, although I'm more in favor of making the other classes stronger to get them on par instead of nerfing the stronger class.
      Last edited by MareZ; 3 days ago. Reason: Sources of values
      MareZ ~ lvl13X ~ Sapphire Legendary Dragons

      Important Threads to find everything you need

      Comment


      • EmrahT
        EmrahT commented
        Editing a comment
        Thank you for good comparing. For a hunter this shield is mostly to protect him a bit and load up ... but the cloak do a similar job so this shield works while attacking . Its hard to say how useful and how great it is... for sure it helps vs beams good...
        But anyway... in the strategy with a hunter its mostly a fast killer and assasin instead of a slow beast , where sorc or warrior dragon more need it. So the usefulness about is a different story... as yu told,... depend on situation too.

      • Bear
        Bear commented
        Editing a comment
        I agree it seems like they are trying very hard to devalue the hunter class every since nightshade. I don't know why they would want to do this. Like you said why not make the other classes better instead of trying to nerf the hunters. Makes me sad, but I'm almost to the point of looking at going back to warriors in recent dragon releases.

    • #6
      Your Cool Down on Crystalline Shield has killed your number 1 hunter Zaru.
      I hope you are happy PG.

      Snow Drop & Frostbite are now fighting for number 1.
      Who would have ever seen that coming?

      Comment


      • PlayerJ
        PlayerJ commented
        Editing a comment
        @Indi123
        I originally believed Zaru was the strongest Hunter in the game.

        The reason why was because I believed Frostbiter spells were incorrect.
        Cloak + Crystalline Shield are competing with each other.
        They are both blue spells doing defensive roles

        When Frostbiter comes near a red mage tower, Players would pick Cloak or Crystalline shield both do the same defensive function.
        When Frostbiter comes near a blue mage tower, Players wouldn't be able to use either spell because they both blue.

        I believed if Crystalline Shield was a red spell, Frostbiter would be the Garnet Night Shade.
        It would have the ability to avoid damage by having 2 different defensive spell colors.

        Instead of the blue spell (cloak) + red spell (reverse projectile)
        Frostbiter would of had blue spell (cloak) + red spell (crystalline shield)
        When Frostbiter comes near a blue mage tower, Cloak wouldn't work. However, Crystalline shield if it was a red spell would work to help defend!
        Crystalline shield would than no longer compete with Cloak.

        The problem is the game never changed Crystalline Shield color.
        They kept it blue which is why I considered Zaru number 1.

        Zaru has Crystalline Shield + Steal of Essence.
        You can get reverse projectile from Steal of Essence.
        Their isn't a guarantee with Steal of Essence. However, you do have a chance.

        In my eyes:
        I considered Crystalline Shield + Cloak has 1 spell
        I considered Crystalline Shield + SE has 1 spell and a half

        The 1 spell and a half would be the winner which is why Zaru was my number 1 recommendation.
        However, This was before I found out about the cool down on Crystalline Shield.
        The cool down on Crystalline Shield makes the spell less reliable.

        This "cool down" doesn't effect Frostbiter or Snow Drop because they still have another spell doing the same role.
        They still have 1 spell in my eyes.
        if Crystalline Shield goes to 0, Cloak is still there to give it 1

        Zaru doesn't have a back up spell to defend himself.
        Zaru depends on Crystalline Shield to work.
        if Crystalline Shield goes to 0, SE only give half because no guarantee.

        For these reasons, I have changed my number 1 Hunter pick from Zaru to either Frostbiter or Snow Drop.

        However, I do catch myself thinking about how awesome Frostbiter & Snow Drop could have been.
        Could you imagine the difference 1 spell color change would of made?
        I suppose with the cool down it wouldn't have amounted to much.
        Last edited by PlayerJ; 1 day ago.

      • Mechengg
        Mechengg commented
        Editing a comment
        Blue spells are defensive, red spells are offensive. There is no way that you could honestly believe that crystalline shield should be red in color.

        Basics young grasshopper, basics

      • PlayerJ
        PlayerJ commented
        Editing a comment
        You are missing the point Mechengg.
        I was simply suggesting that the spell would have been better off with a different spell color than blue.

        I gave red as a quick example.
        I didn't realize you was going to try and break it down to the point that you say red spells are offensive.

        If that is the case, I could recommend changing the spell to a white spell.

        In addition:
        -Not all blue spells are defense.
        Thunderstorm is a blue offensive spell.

        -Not all red spells are offensive.
        Heal marker I consider has a neutral spell.

    • #7
      What if we simply called crystalline shield crystalline (insert noun of your choice here), and made it unbreakable by cannon towers? It would take away one instance where it goes on cd but leave the cd in place for when it simply gets shattered by number of shots it takes. This would make its use more strategic; against slow towers it will likely get you through, but if you wanna pop it and tough it out vs arrows and cannons you'll likely be a sitting duck when it breaks. Thoughts?

      Comment


      • #8
        I like the idea of it being a white spell. Honestly it is a wasted spell on garnet dragons in its current incarnation. PGJared EggToken CampusLifer

        Comment


        • PlayerJ
          PlayerJ commented
          Editing a comment
          I disagree with this comment.
          The spell is perfectly playable in its current form.
          It is to late to change spells now!
          The season is almost over.
          We only have 1-2 weeks left.
          People have invested sigils in dragons already.

          Better luck next season my friend!
          Last edited by PlayerJ; 2 hours ago.

        • Bear
          Bear commented
          Editing a comment
          This spell has nothing at all to do with the season. It is on garnet hunters as well. My point is when I look at Zaru (no I don't have him yet) I will probably never use crystalline shield. If it was a white spell it would be more worthwhile on garnet dragons.

      • #9
        I disagree with this comment.
        The spell is perfectly playable in its current form.
        It is to late to change spells now!
        The season is almost over.
        We only have 1-2 weeks left.
        People have invested sigils in dragons already.

        Better luck next season my friend!



        @PlayerJ: Patronising much?

        You mock and laugh at someone's anxiety that they might have chosen wrongly, but the minute a suggestion is made that might improve things for that person and many others in the same position, you are oh so quick to try and deny that chance. Nice.
        Not 'too late' to change other things in game like defence though eh?

        Comment

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