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Mega Coin is the WORST thing to happen to Team Gauntlet (etc)

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  • Mega Coin is the WORST thing to happen to Team Gauntlet (etc)

    PGJared CampusLifer PGDave

    Since none of you, by self admission, are high or even medium players, allow me to explain how the mega coin has royally fucked highly competitive teams over in the simplest way possible and in the most "neutral" way possible.

    Events that are not reliant on timers would be fine to have the Mega Attacks IF, and only if, there is still a way for free players to compete at a lower scale. Example would be Conquer the World with Mega and 25% bonus. King of the Hill is so so, from my understanding, about Mega Coins. I think it wouldn't be GREAT, but it would be "okay" to have a Mega Attack and a 25% bonus.

    However, events like Tug of War and Team Gauntlet are so reliant on timing that a Mega Attack makes them pointless. For instance in ToW, using a Mega Attack in the last 3m completely sways the flag over the line in most cases. No strategy can prevent that in a competitive field. The team suffers. For Team Gauntlet (PVP island only), time is KEY to taking down the other teams island before they get you. A team with 20 online doing super attacks with triple inner fires will always lose to a handful of Mega Attacks. There needs to be an advantage to having an incredibly organized and coordinated team left in events like that. Basically, I feel Mega Attacks are fine in non-time sensitive events as long as there is a small bonus meter too.


    PULL THE MEGA COIN NOW, I beg you. By now you should know I try to see the middle of the road, but this mega coin for the PvP island is absolutely absurd.

    Love Red,

    Leader of Rulith
    Lover of Spreadsheets



    Helpful Threads:
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  • #2
    I agree with Red, except I am happy to be rid of the bonus meter. Im very active but dont like being forced to bunch my attacks.

    Comment


    • TheRedDelilah
      TheRedDelilah commented
      Editing a comment
      I get the bit about the bonus meter, but fact is that if they won't drastically lower prize tiers and remove mega coins, we need it. If they want to keep the mega coin, free players need a way to keep up. I was trying to compromise a bit.

    • SuavGlav
      SuavGlav commented
      Editing a comment
      Everything about PG's roadmap over the past several months indicates to those of us unable or unwilling to pay that we don't deserve to enjoy any of this game's dwindling benefits, regardless of how hard we're willing to work.

      They've *literally* taken away the ability to work to achieve.

      Spend or languish is the new PG business model.

      Pay or stay.

    • DirtBanga
      DirtBanga commented
      Editing a comment
      Yeh, they need to fix the tiers though. It seems they decided to lower overall prize value when mage coins came in. If they add the bonus meter again, probably they will make the tiers even worse again.

  • #3
    Ageee Red. Unfortunately PG dont give a hoot anymore.

    Comment


    • #4
      You have stated my exact perspective on the issue. No further comments to add

      Comment


      • #5
        I agree with Red, In events that the mega coin is semi acceptable that there still needs to be a bonus meter even if it is smaller. But these events that require timing and coordination we can't have that mega coin! It destroys all coordination and team effort and makes the events almost individual events.

        The normal bonus meter needs to be fully a part of these time sensitive events. Keeping a bonus meter running is hard, and should be rewarded as such. Without it there is no incentive to buy any packs of energy since they can be used more effectively in a different event.

        To get rid of the bonus meter completely would necessitate scaling reward requirements accordingly in such a way that F2P players can again hit that 450 sigil mark as they could before the mega coin. I'm against this because it negates any planning and strategy to get those sigils and as such too many players could hit the 450 mark without spending the time or money required for it.

        Bottom line, if you want to give spenders a way to get more points without putting in the time that's fine, but don't punish F2P players at the same time.

        Comment


        • #6
          Hi. Thanks for the notes. I don’t personally work on events or have a strong voice in their decisions but I’ll point out this thread to them.

          Comment


          • Kent98
            Kent98 commented
            Editing a comment
            campus no offense meant but we heard that answer so many times. still 0% has changed with events. PG increases the cost to get prizes every event with all the bugs still not fixed. sad to say your words are useless. We need results not empty words.

        • #7
          Trouble is, not everybody has inner fires enough for every single run . Non- spenders don't have hundreds of them to boost there scores, in fact most of us are lucky to have even a dozen. No competition there, it's a massacre point wise. All these artificial point boosters should not have been implemented in the first place! However, since they are cash cows, they're enshrined in PG's "Sucker's Hall of Fame".

          Comment


          • Kludgel
            Kludgel commented
            Editing a comment
            I have to disagree; the inner fires benefit spenders, sure, but so does food. And wood. And energy. I haven't spent anything in probably 8 months and I have 99 inner fires—I had 3 two events ago. All it takes is a couple of lucky chests and then you use your inner fires to earn more rubies and chests and... guess what? Inner fires.

            The bonus meter was okay because it rewarded effort and attention, not pure resources. A non-spender with a few energy packs could get that same 70% as a spender, and all the spending in the world wouldn't keep that bonus if you didn't pay attention. IF is a more of a money grab, sure, but nothing outlandish IMO.

            Mega-coins, on the other hand, are garbage.
            Last edited by Kludgel; 3 weeks ago. Reason: Had to make sure mega-coins didn't go un-scorned.

        • #8
          WooHoo! Another event with the mega coin! Thanks PG another weekend where I don't give a rats about the game or my score!
          Another season where I don't care if I get a whole Event Dragon.
          I love the way you think! Slowly, ever so slowly weaning us off our addiction to your game! Brilliant strategy!

          I have Inner Fire and Energy, but I'll be saving all of it because it won't do me any good to use it this weekend.

          Comment


          • #9
            Hi Everyone,


            I am one of the people that works on events and more specifically Mega Attacks. I’ll try to explain our thought process as to why we decided to include Mega Attacks in Team Gauntlet.


            Certain PVP events are more time sensitive, such as Tug of War and Team Gauntlet. When we are making large changes to these events, like Mega Attacks, we are especially aware of the team dynamics that will be changing (for example, people waiting until the last minute, and sniping flags in Tug of War) for those events.


            For Tug of War, we ultimately decided to go with implementing Mega Attacks since we believed the added gameplay option Mega Attacks provided players (e.g. ability for time constrained players to contribute meaningfully to their teams) outweighed the potential negatives of what might happen when players abuse Mega Attacks.


            After Tug of War, we looked at our data on how players/teams interacted with Mega Attacks, and we particularly took a note at how diamond/sapphire players used this feature.


            For the most part, It looked like the feature performed with how we intended Mega Attacks to perform, and we saw very few cases of where they were being abused. We saw more players being able to participate meaningfully in PVP events, and fewer players burning out in these events than before. To give some numbers, we saw 20% higher engagement in Tug of War with Mega Attacks, with 25% less time invested in attacking from players. Because of these results, it gave us confidence that we could make it work in Team Gauntlet as well, with a couple of tweaks.


            For Team Gauntlet specifically, because we were aware of the potential imbalance that Mega Attacks might have when PVP islands are up, we have significantly increased the health of the PVP island. We believe that this should prevent players from abusing Mega Attacks except in the most extreme cases.


            If it turns out that Mega Attacks are being used not as intended in this event, we will try to adjust our events and Mega Attacks as necessary.


            I also want to take some time to address progression prize tiers, since they are another hot topic. For the Conquer the World event, some of the prize tiers were too tough, and we definitely heard it from our players both on the forums and in game. We have adjusted the prize tiers for Team Gauntlet, and we will continue to adjust prize tiers in the future to better accommodate our players.


            Some players might also have noticed that we have been increasing the total amounts of sigils and other rewards we are giving out in PVP events in the past few months, and this is also something that we are planning on continuing for now.


            We definitely appreciate the concern from our players about changes we are making to the game, and we encourage players to continue voicing their feedback and concerns on the forums constructively.

            Comment


            • SilentOne
              SilentOne commented
              Editing a comment
              Ha ha! Yikes, if the Mega Coin feature performed how you intended it to then there is a large group of players who are in lots of trouble from this point forward.
              I only used the one free mega coin, but from now on I won't be getting any. I'm sure you've tweaked the prize points in favour of people using multiple mega coins which means my ability to score reasonably well will be reduced.

              Yes one mega coin earns less points than the same amount energy used with single hits, but, very quickly that balance tips.
              One mega coin is less than 25 hits, but it only takes a second mega coin hit to be in a better position points wise. So now to catch up and get ahead I need to do another 25 hits! That's a whole lot more boosts, Inner Fires, and heal pots which I use just to catch up in points before I can get ahead again.

              This definitely tips the balance of power into the hands of those with money. Maybe some sort of equalisation feature would be nice.
              Others have mentioned bringing back the bonus metre, but that was a time sucker in itself where we had to keep coming back within a certain time frame. So here's my suggestion, to counterbalance the new money feature, have an alternative which give the balance of power back to the grinder.
              So we can choose how we play and not be out of luck on points simply because we don't pay.
              You know, re-introduce that strategy thing which this game used to be full of.

            • CaptainC
              CaptainC commented
              Editing a comment
              As usual I'll try and keep it simple, from my perspective.

              Mega coins were only developed in my opinion as another mega money grabber.

              And after their introduction I watched as I and a few teammates ground away capturing flags for an hour only to see us loose 3 of those flags in the last few minutes of the round to SINGLE mega coin attacks from those teams.

              These coins suck and I refuse to use them or participate in events involving them except to use my free energy to grab as many free prizes as I can.

            • GBill
              GBill commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks for the reply, it's appreciated.
              However, the pvp island hit points are MUCH too high. You have over compensated. I'm in Sapphire 3, and very few pvp islands have been defeated so far, 70k is ridiculous. Set it st a more realistic level.

          • #10
            Increasing the HP of the island is not a good solution. That just makes it far more difficult to take down the island without spending a ton of money. Your customers do not like that sort of thing.

            Comment


            • Stronghold8262
              Stronghold8262 commented
              Editing a comment
              Agree, our team has stopped attacking PvP islands because we can’t take them down in th allotted time. Also, we are seeing that teams attacking our PvP island are also no able to destroy the island. The mega coin is the root of all our problems in all events. It was an unwise decision and has made the game less enjoyable to play. Benforen5he mega coin we had epic battles that went down to the wire, intense, exciting battles. Now there is no point in attacking, no fun, no excitement, and no excitement. The game is getting boring.

          • #11
            Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
            Hi Everyone,

            I am one of the people that works on events and more specifically Mega Attacks. I’ll try to explain our thought process as to why we decided to include Mega Attacks in Team Gauntlet.

            Certain PVP events are more time sensitive, such as Tug of War and Team Gauntlet. When we are making large changes to these events, like Mega Attacks, we are especially aware of the team dynamics that will be changing (for example, people waiting until the last minute, and sniping flags in Tug of War) for those events.

            For Tug of War, we ultimately decided to go with implementing Mega Attacks since we believed the added gameplay option Mega Attacks provided players (e.g. ability for time constrained players to contribute meaningfully to their teams) outweighed the potential negatives of what might happen when players abuse Mega Attacks.

            After Tug of War, we looked at our data on how players/teams interacted with Mega Attacks, and we particularly took a note at how diamond/sapphire players used this feature.

            For the most part, It looked like the feature performed with how we intended Mega Attacks to perform, and we saw very few cases of where they were being abused. We saw more players being able to participate meaningfully in PVP events, and fewer players burning out in these events than before. To give some numbers, we saw 20% higher engagement in Tug of War with Mega Attacks, with 25% less time invested in attacking from players. Because of these results, it gave us confidence that we could make it work in Team Gauntlet as well, with a couple of tweaks.

            For Team Gauntlet specifically, because we were aware of the potential imbalance that Mega Attacks might have when PVP islands are up, we have significantly increased the health of the PVP island. We believe that this should prevent players from abusing Mega Attacks except in the most extreme cases.

            If it turns out that Mega Attacks are being used not as intended in this event, we will try to adjust our events and Mega Attacks as necessary.

            I also want to take some time to address progression prize tiers, since they are another hot topic. For the Conquer the World event, some of the prize tiers were too tough, and we definitely heard it from our players both on the forums and in game. We have adjusted the prize tiers for Team Gauntlet, and we will continue to adjust prize tiers in the future to better accommodate our players.

            Some players might also have noticed that we have been increasing the total amounts of sigils and other rewards we are giving out in PVP events in the past few months, and this is also something that we are planning on continuing for now.

            We definitely appreciate the concern from our players about changes we are making to the game, and we encourage players to continue voicing their feedback and concerns on the forums constructively.
            Welcome to the forums, Voltolos , and thank you for replying.

            Honestly, I have to say that your data is going to be extremely skewed. Remember that for the first iteration of Tug of War that included Mega Attacks, we were given a free one as the feature was introduced. What is your definition of "being abused"? For my team, we honestly just gave up for most of the event and just used our free coins collectively to use the little strategy that was left. Darling, I WANT to be able to grind. I WANT to be able to do well if I invest hours of gameplay. I don't invest nearly as much as I use to because there is absolutely no point. It is frustrating, demoralizing, and heartbreaking. Do you know how it could possibly feel as a leader of a competitive, old, but hardly heavy spending team (by comparison) to know that the only way my team could compete was to pay? Could you possibly know how it feels as a leader to not be able to help my team even with hours of gameplay because I can't even make a dent? It is heartbreaking.

            I disagree with your "solution" to the PvP island entirely. Once, if I had 20 people online we had a shot of taking down the PvP island before them. We get 1-3 attacks in a person, and then the island is down. Now it will take way more people (impossible with our diverse team) or significantly more attacks to take the island down for my team, meanwhile any team that can afford mega attacks just whipes us away. You have only made it twice as hard for my team to compete, not balanced anything at all. If you want the Mega Attacks, fine. Just disable them for PVP islands and let people who have "limited time" use them on PvE islands instead. Stop punishing teams and let this event be a TEAM EVENT, not a single player who can afford the most mega points event.

            Honestly you've broken my heart. I have been playing War Dragons for two and a half years, I work my ass off to try and keep up, but I am a teacher and can hardly afford to spend much on this game at all. Mega Coins in events like this, where team strategy was once key, are showing me that my activity, time, and dedication are worthless. I'm one of those little players who would buy a pack on an event if my grinding was getting me somewhere, so I could keep grinding. Now I have turned into a player that can barely make the tiniest of impact for my team, and I feel like giving up entirely. What do you expect me to do?
            Love Red,

            Leader of Rulith
            Lover of Spreadsheets



            Helpful Threads:
            How to Build YOUR Ultimate Breeding Path
            Red's Breeding Paths: Sapphire to Emerald

            Rulith's Website:
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            Red's Guide to Flying Hunters
            Dragon's, etc.

            Social:
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            Comment


            • Mechengg
              Mechengg commented
              Editing a comment
              @pgdave

              I think one more thing should be taken into consideration when discussing whether it's better to count up or count down. This thing to consider is the fact that right now there is a set VP that is awarded based off of wall HP killed. This ratio is based on which island you are attacking for PvE or what the furthest island is that you have defeated for PvP.

              If you were to move this from a count down with a finish line would there still be points awarded to the second place team? Would they need to cross a certain threshold to obtain points for this? Or would a single attack net them the VP one would typically get for defeating the entire island and they would be able to focus on shooting down the max PvE bases more often than spending all of their energy in a high HP PvP island that in turn could net them way way way way less VP per wall hp spent killing.

              I think this would change the entire mechanics of the event unless these items were really considered in depth between different leagues and player levels and feasible solutions were implemented. For example one could argue that your team would gain VP equal to X amount per wall HP defeated on a PvP island plus that 8% VP you steal from the enemy. This X value could change according to which PvE island you have finished.

              But whatever the scenarios are, they should not include this Megacoin in the PvP part of the event


              Thanks for discussing and hopefully some players can give good feedback after this event and it will be heard

            • PGDave
              PGDave commented
              Editing a comment
              Good point; I hadn't thought about how the scoring for the second place team would be impacted (you're right, as-is now the second place team gets VP [less than the winner though]). Like you, I'm also still trying to think of the 'optimal' way to structure the PvP portion of the event. Definitely needs more thought. I'm sure we'll all have more ideas after we've played through the first couple PvP rounds. Looks like we won't have to wait long to experience it first-hand at least.

            • Cameron90
              Cameron90 commented
              Editing a comment
              Either way, I think we will find that these mega attacks are going to create a huge imbalance in the way the events work. I honestly think the best solution is to turn off mega attacks for the pvp portion of the event.

          • #12
            And, no, you didn’t adjust prize tiers properly. You adjusted up, not down which would have been commensurate with the removal of the bonus meter. This circular “logic” you waded in here with is getting old. But, at least now we know who the blame should be laid upon for this absurd perversion of a feature.

            Comment


            • SuavGlav
              SuavGlav commented
              Editing a comment
              I disagree with the logic, but let's not run seemingly the only competent poster apart from CL out of town over one post.

              I sincerely doubt they are solely responsible for the crapfest.

            • Kludgel
              Kludgel commented
              Editing a comment
              Well said, Glav

          • #13
            Voltolos so what happens to a player that uses a mega coin (won't be me) and the PVP base is taken down before he finishes his/her attack? I can only assume by past actions is the player will lose the mega coin, lose the inner fires and get no points for the attack. Then they will bitch to support and support will subjectively award some (heavy spenders) by giving them their crap back and say tough shit to the nonspenders and light to medium spenders and they get screwed.

            Comment


            • #14
              Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
              Certain PVP events are more time sensitive, such as Tug of War and Team Gauntlet. When we are making large changes to these events, like Mega Attacks, we are especially aware of the team dynamics that will be changing (for example, people waiting until the last minute, and sniping flags in Tug of War) for those events.
              Do you have any plans for balance/restriction changes for the next Tug of War? Limiting mega attacks to once per round or once per team per round? Limiting mega coin attacks from being used within the last 30 minutes of a round? Saying that you used a mega coin or two to snipe a flag, is like saying you used a nuke or two to clear a battlefield.

              Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
              For Tug of War, we ultimately decided to go with implementing Mega Attacks since we believed the added gameplay option Mega Attacks provided players (e.g. ability for time constrained players to contribute meaningfully to their teams) outweighed the potential negatives of what might happen when players abuse Mega Attacks.
              Please explain your definition of abuse.

              Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
              After Tug of War, we looked at our data on how players/teams interacted with Mega Attacks, and we particularly took a note at how diamond/sapphire players used this feature.
              Yes, the main purpose of this feature was to further monetize your most competitive leagues.

              Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
              For the most part, It looked like the feature performed with how we intended Mega Attacks to perform, and we saw very few cases of where they were being abused. We saw more players being able to participate meaningfully in PVP events, and fewer players burning out in these events than before. To give some numbers, we saw 20% higher engagement in Tug of War with Mega Attacks, with 25% less time invested in attacking from players. Because of these results, it gave us confidence that we could make it work in Team Gauntlet as well, with a couple of tweaks.
              Again, definition of abuse please. None of these stats seem to be relevant, it was first time you ran the event with a promotion for the mechanic. Can you provide stats from any recent mega coin events? Can you also provide a stat for the average prize tier earned with said recent event.

              Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
              For Team Gauntlet specifically, because we were aware of the potential imbalance that Mega Attacks might have when PVP islands are up, we have significantly increased the health of the PVP island. We believe that this should prevent players from abusing Mega Attacks except in the most extreme cases.
              Great you penalized all the teams who don't hoard vast amounts of energy chests and inner fires to convert to mega coins at the expense of 1-2k individual points.

              Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
              If it turns out that Mega Attacks are being used not as intended in this event, we will try to adjust our events and Mega Attacks as necessary.
              Okay...

              Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
              I also want to take some time to address progression prize tiers, since they are another hot topic. For the Conquer the World event, some of the prize tiers were too tough, and we definitely heard it from our players both on the forums and in game. We have adjusted the prize tiers for Team Gauntlet, and we will continue to adjust prize tiers in the future to better accommodate our players.
              If your prize tiers were too tough why didn't you compensate players for the adjusted prize tiers?

              Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
              Some players might also have noticed that we have been increasing the total amounts of sigils and other rewards we are giving out in PVP events in the past few months, and this is also something that we are planning on continuing for now.
              Could you break down the distribution of the increase? It looked to me that the majority of the prize increase went to heavy spenders. Making it a null point for the other 90% of players.

              Originally posted by Voltolos View Post
              We definitely appreciate the concern from our players about changes we are making to the game, and we encourage players to continue voicing their feedback and concerns on the forums constructively.
              Call me a conspiracy theorist, but I find it interesting the amount of PG employees popping into the forums these days. Almost like the UI disaster that ramped up forum participation and support tickets, needed a diversion...

              Comment


              • #15
                I see a lot of mega coins being lost after the island has been defeated. This is a terrible idea. The prize tiers are still not scaled down enough to compensate for the lose of the bonus meter. This will be another crap event for me.

                Comment


                • SuavGlav
                  SuavGlav commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yeah, I've already apologized to my team for my shitty score this weekend, lol.
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