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To Pocket Gemstone: Some insight making a profit

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  • To Pocket Gemstone: Some insight making a profit

    Having worked for a large company for over 28 years I've learned you can make good profits by being reasonable in what a consumer gets for his money. People spend more money when they feel they got a good "deal" for what they spent, rather than spending and not getting a "deal". (Smaller amounts of money earned per items) x (more people spending) can make a company more money than (large amount of money earned per item) x (less people spending...losing the consumer base) I know I spend less often since many of the changes made to events and seasonal dragons than I used to BECAUSE it costs too much money now to advance and attain what you need in order to continue to grow in the game.

    I have been a war dragon player for a long time and have seen many changes, both good and bad. I have spent lots of money on this game. I spent because I enjoyed the game, to get special dragons and to improve my base/rosters quicker. Events used to be fair, but more and more PG (your company) has been making the game next to impossible to advance in unless you spend money.

    Divine dragons came out, then the season dragons. Sigals were needed to get these dragons and there were ways to get them without having to spend to get at least one. More and more things that helped players to acquire things are taken away and replaced with things needing money to acquire. The amount of sigals needed went up, and the ways to get them are taken away. The bonus meter was one such thing. Now you can use a mega coin, which costs 100 energy and a boatload of inner fires. In order to do that, you HAVE TO buy gold chests, because the drop rate on the treasure chest drops from buildings is too low. And now with the bonus meter gone, attaining achievement prizes will be harder.

    The last few events when I have bought gold chests, the items needed were not in them, heals and attack boosts, black pearls and things not pertaining to the event were mostly given. I use to spend to try and get more than 1 season dragon, but now I will be lucky to even get 1 and all the stones needed to level it completely up. All the joy of playing is getting removed.

    Please reconsider your recent changes to the events.

  • #2
    Hi Drakon.

    For sure our philosophy is that we attempt to give people good value for their $. A couple of things:
    • For sure we prefer a broader base of customers vs a smaller set of people spending larger per person. We do all sorts of analytics and experiments to with the lens that we prefer that outcome whenever possible.
    • People want different things and are willing to pay differently for it. Some people choose to get a reliable but inexpensive car. Some people want to get a decked out sports car. People have different needs and decide what they value and how much they want to spend for it. We provide the ability to buy both --- you can spend a small amount to get a decent dragon or get the next dragon earlier. If you want to buy the very best dragon decked out dragon in the game RIGHT NOW -- you're going to have spend more to get it. Some people want to have a nice Toyota Camry -- decent car which gets the job done (the last car I owned). Some people want to collect the latest year's newest edition of Tesla, Aston Martin & Lamborghini. Just because some people people decide to collect decked out muscle cars doesn't mean that purchasing a nice family 4-door sedan isn't a good idea or the best option for most people. If your assertion is that every single person should or must be able to be able to get a collection of sports cars for the same price as a 4-door sedan, I'm not sure I agree with you.


    • SuavGlav
      SuavGlav commented
      Editing a comment
      Oh my God, CampusLifer, I like you, but you must stop spinning all comments about dragon progression or chest value into analogies about everyone asking for end-game content at bargain basement prices!

      Nobody is asking for all the dragons. We're asking for reasonable progression. You need to understand how the Sapphire tier affects overall gameplay. Progression falls off a cliff like shares of Lehman Brothers' stock in 2008. The resources required to maintain a reasonable rate of progression remain the same while the dragons and towers they support ramp up exponentially.

      Stop. Responding. Hyperbolically. and Listen.


    • Sandberg74
      Sandberg74 commented
      Editing a comment
      What suav said

    • Owlrager
      Owlrager commented
      Editing a comment
      Kittens and Suav ftw

  • #3
    Dear Campuslifer,

    Just a side note....I never asserted that everyone should be able to get a collection of sports cars (aka dragons) for the price of a 4 door sedan. Having been a very loyal, longtime player who has spent money many, many times during the years I have been playing, I just wanted to try and let the company know how I felt, (and how many of the people on team and line chat have posted similar comments and concerns) . I guess it really doesn’t matter to you, by your reply.

    I posted this post because when I submitted a help desk ticket with some suggestions, I was told to post to forums to see what others felt about it. I think your reply was rude and very condescending. If you really read the posts your consumers (players) are saying you would see that many are tired of the changes that benefit only the company. I guess I will stick to the “decent” dragons.


    • RayRay
      RayRay commented
      Editing a comment
      Comparing a game, something that people play to relax after a hard day at work to a functional essential life purchase such as a car is a completely absurd comparison. Think you might be a bit out of touch with the rest of us... maybe a latte or a beer, but a car?....

  • #4
    CampusLifer where do we purchase this nice 4-door sedan? If you just boot up ye olde War dragons and go to the store you'll see what you get for the money you spend. I understand the Aston Martin portion of that analogy, but where does one go to purchase the Camry? 5 dollars for a 3 hour timer? Is that the Camry? You completely missed the OP point. PG needs some players that actually play the game. I don't get why you wouldn't bother to play surely you get unlimited everything anyways if you did...


    • #5

      But the problem is your charging Mercedes prices for a used Kia.

      Example, this event I used 360 IF and a little more than a 120 energy packs to get 117k points. I am now wiped out. Let's figure 20IF per 10 gold chests. So that is 180 gold chests; in reality, probably more bc of the "junk" in chests (there houldn't be pearls, fire or ice shards during a pvp event). Anyway; 100 bucks gets you 27k rubies ; so basically $300 bucks to not even come close to getting max points in an event. It's ways to much for what it is.

      With a bonus meter I could spend a few hundred; budget my rss and do well for the season. With the removal of the meter and what it costs now to do fair/well; I've decided not to spend. The "value" for my money is no longer there and that's what the majority of your paying player base feels and what we've been expressing.

      Let's look at your runic chests; they're a complete rip off. They contain the same junk runes ( poison, healing, mystic, battle cry etc) that most players have plenty of and/or are totally useless. How about actullay giving the player base something worth purchasing at a fair "value".
      Last edited by Cinemax; 10-01-2017, 09:17 PM.


      • MikeGoN2GetU
        MikeGoN2GetU commented
        Editing a comment
        Hey i like my KIA!! lol

    • #6
      I actually did buy a new car this year instead of value packs, and unlike the lottery that gold chests are, I got what I was expecting and what I paid for from the car dealership.

      That's the problem here, a double whammy of poor value PLUS unknown results from spending.

      And if you go to the direct ruby spend option, the poor value becomes appalling value.

      P. S Scaling. It needs to be adjusted to account for players over 200.


      • #7
        I don't normally try hard for event dragons, but an example I would give from my own gameplay for a "Camry" is the following: I got "Skarr" a few seasons ago without spending money and just playing really hard. He continues to be a very useful dragon for me. Not my best, but in some situations his spell set works pretty well. He's definitely not the best dragon in the game, but he gets the job done for me. Similarly, I spent a small amount of rubies to get amorak early --- he turned out to be my best dragon for almost ~6 months.

        Similarly, early in the game I purchased Numen by mistake for 4.3k rubies. I really regretted buying him at first, but he turned out to be my best dragon for a month or two. For sure he's not the best dragon in the game, but he's pretty good and useful for a decent chunk of time.

        For sure, if you don't think a dragon is worth the price, definitely don't buy it. Purchase things which you think meet your own point on the curve of budget/value. Different people have different opinions of what they think is worth the price -- get the ones which you think work for you.
        Last edited by CampusLifer; 10-01-2017, 10:03 PM.


        • SuavGlav
          SuavGlav commented
          Editing a comment
          You really can't comprehend the problem so many of us are facing until you reach Sapphire tier.

          I would challenge you to track your ruby stipend and once you reach Sapphire, don't dip into it for a while. Only use rubies you earn from gameplay and/or personal spending and see for yourself just how hard it is.

        • Sandberg74
          Sandberg74 commented
          Editing a comment
          You really have no clue about the difference in the game at low levels like yourself and higher levels.

          To be honest your replies are 🙄

        • Hieronymus
          Hieronymus commented
          Editing a comment
          Comparing the current event and season to Skarr and last fall is a little misleading... how many attacks did it take you to build up the points to win those achievement prizes? Was there a bonus meter or similar mechanism in play to reward those who could spend time making repeated attacks? How many sigils were available at each prize level? How many total sigils did it cost you to get Skarr? I hope you can see where I'm going with all this. In every question above, the answer is that the odds and rewards have been changed to penalize the players if they cannot or will not cough up money.
          For the record, I started playing last fall (about a year ago exactly) and I was able to get all three season's dragons, but only to the first evolve stone or two because I didn't know to focus on one dragon. Every season since then I have made less and less progression towards evolve stones overall, despite being much higher level, playing better, and putting in just as much or more time.
          I would love to get the season's mythic all the time (the lamborghini in the above examples) but I know that is not realistically achievable for me. I am entirely satisfied with getting my Camry each season (one of the three regular line dragons) and getting max or next to max evolve stones for it, since that means I'll get some good months of use from it. What bothers me is that I am on track to not even get a dragon to a level that will be useful at all, since i've leveled to the 'lofty' heights of 130s. (insert very sardonic self-pitying laugh). I'm being downgraded to a used beat-up Scion xB (which I drive IRL...) for the same costs and effort on my part. And I just hit the sapphire wall. /facepalm
          It's frustrating.

          That is the sentiment that has sparked the fire you should be feeling from the player base's feedback.

      • #8
        Hi. I don’t have a ruby stipend. I pay via IAP.


        • SuavGlav
          SuavGlav commented
          Editing a comment
          Then you are more likely than some others to 'get it' more quicky. Someone at PG needs to get this.

      • #9

        Thread i made recently^ It was closed but i am working on getting it back up so we can keep proposing these ideas. I linked it here because i believe it is relevenat to this topic as I, and others who commented, had great ideas to help fix this problem we all know to be the end of the game! Please check it out if you can!


        • #10
          CampusLifer I think the point people are trying to make is the value you get for your money at this point in the game is not worth it. It's interesting that you bring up Skarr and Amarok. I think many of us think of those two dragons fondly and with nostalgia as that was a time when it felt like we were able to get more for our money. Over time, chests have become diluted, energy costs have gone up, rewards per event have gone down, sigil costs per dragon line have gone up, egg & timer costs for dragons and towers are increasing with each level with no increase in daily missions or chest rewards to compensate. Part of the fun of spending is feeling like you're getting a good deal. You want to feel like you're being smart by waiting until the best time to spend and getting the most for your rubies or getting an extra bonus when there is a sale. But every time PG tries to do a "sale" you take something away to make things worse (see Double Sigil weekends) and we end up feeling like we're getting screwed. You send out a mail talking about how you have put a cap on energy increases for an event (Yay PG is so nice!!) and then a couple of events later you INCREASE the energy costs all sneaky-like with no announcement. I'm sorry, that just feels like outright deception to me.
          The basic issues are:
          1) Value for our money is decreasing
          2) PG is blatantly deceptive about this fact
          3) Attempts at "sales" are botched, leaving us feeling like we are getting screwed instead of helped.

          Most companies do #1, but they don't lie about it. They simply jack up prices from say "A" to say "C" and leave them there for a while letting us whine and complain. Then they do a big sale where prices are at "B" and everyone spends!! Finally, prices go back to "C" for a long while until they eventually go up to "D" and repeat.
          PG instead jacks up prices to "C", tells us they have lowered them to "B" while really increasing them to "D". Then puts them on sale for "A" which is really, again, "D".

          We're just insulted that you think we're that stupid, that's all. The funny thing is, you could get more if you were just honest about it.


          • #11
            Flame0 I agree.

            CampusLifer you have made that claim a number of times and from the few references you have made it is obvious you are not at a high level of play. As an experiment set-up a level 300+ account and give yourself one large pack, and see what you can build and/or breed or see how well you do in a single event. Then try to look us in eye and claim value packs are worth their costs. Then try to to use 1 mortgage payment/rent payment on that same account and see how far you progress. It wont be much (and i assume you make a decent salary and your mortgage/rent isn't cheap).

            I dont mean for you to waste your money like we all are. But i am sure you have the ability to play the game in "test mode" mode or something just to see.


            • #12
              CL, think you are a little off the mark here.

              Let me stipulate up front that anyone who wants a Ferrari for the price of a Toyota Camry should not be taken seriously. What the OP is saying is when you first start playing, you can either go for a Camry or pay more to get a Ferrari. As you keep leveling up, you need to pay more to even get a Camry, and buying a $100 value pack or even several doesn't buy you a Ferrari any more. It basically buys you a Ferrari muffler or mudflaps or something like this.

              The higher level you get, the worse value a value pack provides, period. None of the key items are scaled like food and wood packs are. Imagine buying a $100 pack during fortification as a level 100. You can greatly enhance your base with the expected value of the timers you receive. At level 300, the same $100 pack buys you 1 tower upgraded from level 49 to 50. 1 tower, 1 level up. That's what people mean when they make points like the OP. Not that I should get a Camry for a Ferrari price, but I shouldn't get an air freshener for my Camry for a Ferrari price, either.


              • #13
                OMFGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG that response!! I don't even play this damn game anymore and this type of PG attitude is part of the reason. Nobody is asking for top end gear at bargain basement prices and you are basically calling players scroungers. We have all laid out many many times the scaling problems at higher levels. When you came into D1 LC a couple months ago you said yourself that your current dragon was Sekronos. So how, with respect, can you hope to understand the struggle towards the top of the game? I like the fact you post on here and are honest but sometimes you need to just look at how your posts on this hot potato topic must appear to players. Insinuating we are all freeloaders while ignoring the stonecold proof examples we provide is extremely insulting.

                Can you honestly say spending £400 ($530) and getting enough timers to upgrade 3 towers by one level each is good value?


                • Sandberg74
                  Sandberg74 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Exactly. This response shows the total lack knowledge at playing at higher levels.

              • #14
                We should stop saying they don't know what it's like. These are adults we're talking to and i am sure they know all too well what we are talking about. Pointing it out is pointless in my opinion. You could give them an account with all level 54 towers and ask them to use their money to max it and they would still support the ideas they are putting out here. This is their company and they will say whatever they can to continue on the path of money.

                Offer them ways to improve and earn more. THAT is the only way the community will move PG to helping the players as well as themselves. When players come to realize this then it will be time to make something happen to change PG's mind. Spending boycotts are about the only way to go to get this to happen and the spenders aren't the ones on this forum. The Whales of the game don't care enough to get on here and type out there thoughts, instead they just choose to (or not to) open their wallets. Instead of complaining here, complain to the spenders on your team. I for one have seen helpdesk conversations be extremely favored towards spenders on my team. I think the money individuals have shown themselves willing to spend results in their superiority over the entire community's.

                The employees in this company working on War Dragons know what they are doing. They cater towards the individuals who pay. However, since this is a social game, the players have a stronger connections with its spenders than the company does. If you don't have money you don't have a mouth, so make some friends... I want to put my ideas here rather than my accusations. This is so when PG realizes their need to change they will have ideas to turn to immediately that will benefit the community as well as them instead of only them. The conversation should be with your teammates that are on PG's "roadmap" since we obviously have no say.

                I guess i should rephrase this so i don't sound like a close minded finger pointer... I did not mean to say that no one on forums is a spender. All i meant to say was that the majority of forums users are not big spenders, have not been big spenders, are now not big spenders, or soon to be not big spenders. Yes, there are tons of individuals here that have huge accounts that are 300+ and have spent a huge amount, but i guarantee that there are more spenders out there as well as bigger ones too. Those are the ones we need to talk to.

                I wasn't meaning to call people out, I was just intending to get my ideas out here. Warlord's comment summed up my ideas perfectly!
                Last edited by XxTrue1xX; 10-02-2017, 04:08 PM.


                • Warlord
                  Warlord commented
                  Editing a comment
                  My team call me a whale lmao. Well I spent a good amount that’s true.

                  And as a paying customer I EXPECT that my problems are solved quicker than a graphical dislike of a non spender.

                  Imagine the following. You have a favorite restaurant and you eat there every evening with friends and family.

                  OF COURSE you expect that they will treat you special and more generous than a random guest who comes maybe once a year.

                  However when it comes to general issues that a majority of players can’t enter the game or an entire event is broken then individual requests are second priority no matter who much you spent.

                  The above saying is an example of the perfect customer relationship world but the truth is I have a ticket open and didn’t get a single response besides the generic one. By coincidence I saw that it was solved or about to be solved via the forum (defender rider issue which caused 10 seconds gameplay and ended after in a sync error).

                  Back to your statement. You won’t find the super whales here but leaders and officers of teams with super whales (like dreadnought and Nomercyorder).

                  Those could tell their players to stop spending but since there is no alliance between those teams one would use the non spending of the other team to take their spot, win events etc.

                  It’s unfortunately not that easy.

                • Indi123
                  Indi123 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Well you're way off the mark thinking people in this thread don't spend money. And if people who have spent many hundreds and upwards of a thousand per month don't have a voice under your 'spenders only matter' scenario, then that just proves the point that the scaling is horribly off.

                  At this rate there will be 20 legit whales and the rest of the players under Sapphire dragons left.

                • Spooky
                  Spooky commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Don't forget the cheaters and hackers! I imagine they'll stick around too. Indi123

              • #15
                I keep saying this, in my changes video and here, but make gold chests scale with level. That would fix almost all of these issues. I have been told that to level 1 tower from level 50-54 it is $400 EACH. Why? Because a level 500 gets the exact same amount of speedups from gold chests as a level 1 even though the time it takes for buildings to level is about 200 times longer. Same idea applies to egg tokens, mystic frags, and most of the items (except sigils I think should remain the same) as each of those items mean less and less as you grow in the game. Pixxel will be posting my changes video up in the forums soon, and that explains more on the specifics, but this is the general idea. Food/lumber packs scale....why can't everything else. It makes sense that is should as these towers and dragons are so freaking expensive and the price just keeps going up.
                War Dragons Youtuber:



                • XxTrue1xX
                  XxTrue1xX commented
                  Editing a comment
                  This is not a good idea in my mind. You are basically handing the spenders free reign to spend even more. This idea would turn the game into a distance match rather than a war game. Instead of trying to progress through the ever-impossible tiers we will be trying not to fall behind after super-gold-plated-ruby-alexandrite-polished-meteor-diamond tier is released. If this were to happen how would events be scored? Spenders would put the same amount of money in and the overall moderate spender population would increase but the whales would be even farther ahead and out of reach for the moderate-non-spenders. You said that packs scale to level... They really don't. They stop at around level 180 or so (loose research), and the spenders i know have complained to me that their money buys resource packs of the same value that a player half their level can also get.

                  I proposed an idea in the following thread of discounting old content so non-spenders could stay close enough behind to not end the game content while PG could keep the prices for the top tier stuff so they can earn off the spenders as they usually do. I like this idea better and the ideas of the commenters as well! Take a look if you can!