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A Month of Flawless Execution

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  • #16
    Check out the PG HQ in San Francisco (a VERY EXPENSIVE place to live):

    See: https://techcrunch.com/2014/07/08/tc...100-at-a-time/

    Comment


    • Marvin Lamb
      Marvin Lamb commented
      Editing a comment
      At least we have a clue what the programmers have been working on...

    • Marvin Lamb
      Marvin Lamb commented
      Editing a comment
      At least we have a clue what the programmer have been working on...

  • #17
    Bring Shen Back!
    He is one of the most interesting contributor of this forum.
    you don't like what he said... too bad, as you are domiciled in a democratic country, freedom of speech is something you should respect.
    if i'm not mistaken, the first amendment of the US Constitution is directly linked to our subject.
    can u please tell us how a US company can't respect the first amendment of the US Constitution because it hurts your feeling?
    And by the way, Shen is damn right.
    one error is fine, so many errors, glitches, every events... it's just a joke and it should legitimately leads to firing incompetent people.

    Comment


    • PGJared
      PGJared commented
      Editing a comment
      That was part of the reasoning, certainly. The other part was previous bans for trolling or violating forum rules, as well as recent post history that qualifies as trolling. That kind of toxic behavior isn't tolerated.

    • Cameron90
      Cameron90 commented
      Editing a comment
      You guys really need some thicker skin...or maybe a sense of humor. I’ll let you pick.

    • Dravoz
      Dravoz commented
      Editing a comment
      PGJared typical PG logic. Punish the customer instead of addressing what is making them unhappy. Where is the post you promised about "Event points, thresholds, event prizes, and energy / time / effort to attain said points"? Same story with the "big formal announcement" we were promised to the Leaving War Dragons thread. We waited weeks, and (after much prompting) what we got was a bunch of 'we're looking at xxx' bs. If there's toxicity here, you need to own your part in that.

  • #18
    CampusLifer Bring shen back please, you had no justification to ban him. You guys either don't reply or don't let the individual talk and this is ridiculous. Come on and do the right thing!

    Comment


    • #19
      You people are obviously way too young to be running a company...I've never seen so much immaturity and "lack of" professionalism in my entire life. Just the way you get defensive and handle situations with your customers here on forum is beyond laughable...I can see why this game is tanking and why so many are fed up!! You obviously need to take a class or 2 on customer service and learn how to diffuse situations because all you are doing is feeding into it. Definitely look like a bunch of amateurs that lack experience

      Comment


      • Dravoz
        Dravoz commented
        Editing a comment
        They're not interested. Sad, but true.

    • #20
      A few things:
      • I wasn't the one who implemented a ban, but I support it. For what it's worth, if you look at his posting history for the last day he made a number of posts aside from the one in this thread including some which have been deleted by admins. My read is that he wasn't just banned for this single post, but for a pattern of behavior and probably some other posts worse than this one.
      • For sure PG makes mistakes, continues to make mistakes and is not perfect. We're open to constructive negative feedback --- if you read through my post history you'll see that I'll talk back and forth for months with people who give me negative feedback.
      • Harassment or inappropriate communication is completely orthogonal from negative feedback. It's not the same thing and unrelated.
      • The first amendment in the bill of rights says that the US government can't stop free speech. A private company like PG has every right to decide what kind of communication they believe is appropriate on their platform. I'd go further to say that we have a duty to make sure our communication channels are not places where the culture is not one of harassment / hate speech. Both between players and between players and employees. In fact, I feel much more duty to draw a line when someone is attacking someone else than if it's directed at me.
      • I understand there is legitimate cause for anger --- for sure we've dropped the ball on a few things and need to tighten up both our communication and execution. I'm personally very open to negative feedback if it's constructive. That said, I think the tone of this forum has jumped from "valuable negative feedback" to simply trolling. For sure, personal attacks on my colleagues is not appropriate and won't be tolerated. I'm going to closing threads and deleting comments which are basically trolling.
      • This isn't the first time we've had to do this. I'm pulling part of the same rote response from previous occasion: http://wardragons.pocketgems.com/for...and-servers-on
      Last edited by CampusLifer; 4 weeks ago.

      Comment


      • XxTrue1xX
        XxTrue1xX commented
        Editing a comment
        I totally understand what you are saying. BUT you (pg) banned him after a more innocent poat that didn't violate your rules of content. It looks bad on your part when you end up banning someone after an innocent posts for a thread no one has seen. Why wasn't he banned right when that post was taken down? You need to be quicker with these bans as this situation proves how badly it can appear on your side when the community never saw his post that went against the forums rules.

        All in all i support his ideas in this thread and I'm glad he was able to post it. You guys just need to ban people before they can create more threads so this confusion doesn't happen again.

        Sorry for all this fuss and thanks for keeping the forum clean!

      • SuavGlav
        SuavGlav commented
        Editing a comment
        I'm only speaking for myself here, but you seem to be the only staff person around here that gives a solitary shit about what any of us have to say.

        Maybe someone from the 'happiness pod' should have a presence here. Not that you shouldn't be adding your input, it's much appreciated, but it would pave the road for improved relations if we felt someone whose job is to make sure players are satisfied with their gaming experience was paying attention to the fact that we're NOT HAPPY.

      • Cameron90
        Cameron90 commented
        Editing a comment
        Well I guess I will start.

        PG's stance on this is ludicrous. I honestly think it is time some of the admins grow up. If I could ban everyone in life who hurt my feelings there wouldn't be anyone left.
        PG makes mistakes, far too many if you ask me. The fact that you guys can fuck up the same events over and over is beyond me.
        We will have to agree to disagree that saying people should be fired is harassment.

        Far too often, PG brushes off legitimate concerns with vague and bullshit answers. PG created this environment, not Shen nor anyone else in the player base.

    • #21
      CampusLifer Here is where some of the animosity is coming from. The event is broken, the beta is broken, the game economy is broken, the balance of spending vs teamwork, skill, effort is broken. So given all of the broken things that could have been addressed, fixed, or at least given an update on. With all of those seemingly larger issues, PGJared spent his valuable time and resources banning someone who was just taking a piss at how many mistakes (often seemingly the SAME mistake) are made? That is where a lot of this stems from. Of all the things to address, this is what was given priority?

      Comment


      • #22
        I don't believe non-admins can see it, but the person in question posted a bunch of things to another thread (http://wardragons.pocketgems.com/for...g-event-prizes) after he made this thread. These posts have since been deleted. I'm pretty sure the source of the ban is actually his posts to that thread which were made later than this one --- because they were bad enough to warrant being deleted.

        Comment


        • #23
          Hi.
          • For sure there are problems and PG should work harder to make them better.
          • That is not an excuse for us to not deal with people behaving badly.
          • If someone is behaving in a way which is creating a toxic environment it is also our responsibility to deal with it when we see it. Frankly, there's no argument that we're doing the wrong thing when we deal with this when we see it: In some cases, we're actually legally required to do this. Even when communication isn't bad enough to meet that bar, I still believe we have a duty to deal with it when we see someone creating a toxic environment.

          Comment


          • Cameron90
            Cameron90 commented
            Editing a comment
            Still sounds like a case of someone getting their feelings hurt. Again, the toxic environment is not created by the players so much as it is by PG's apparent disregard for the players' thoughts or desires for the game.

          • odie1993
            odie1993 commented
            Editing a comment
            the toxic environment has been created by PG (excluding you). They have failed over and over and over again on implementing an event with a glitch, bug, chest problems, etc. They fail to respond at all (again except you) on topics and feedback they requested on numerous different ideas, additions to the game, bugs, etc. Just go look at any posts created by echo, eggtoken, pixxel, PG Jared, etc and you will see they fail to answer any of the questions posed by the player base. See legitimate questions posed by players that go unanswered. The "the forum is just a small subset of the feedback we receive" is garbage as i see the same things go unanswered in support tickets, facebook posts, twitch comments, etc.

            It's toxic in here because of the lack of any understanding from PG in responding to its customers. you have trolls in here because PG fails to address any issues, bugs, questions, glitches, etc that PG creates by their failure to provide information, fix bugs, fix gltiches, etc. Don't blame the messenger when PG is at fault for all of this.

            Nor do i want to hear that PG has other more important things to do. Eggtoken was introduced as the replacement for Joe. HAHAHAHA, the player base only wishes he was 10% of the replacement of Joe. customer service should be a corner stone of your business as it is with all businesses. In the world of today that would include to having someone on staff to respond to all the different social medias to address issues and questions about the game.

            I would vote you put the person currently in charge of turning on events and move him in this roll as he clearly is not competent enough to do his current job.

        • #24
          I believe he only posted one reply about the use of PGJared s use of time...while this may not be nice, I dont' think this warrants a ban? Also...define toxic environment, as bad as the players get towards each other the most toxic sentiment seems to be towards PG recently, that would mean PG would have to deal with itself? That amount of self-reflection could be interesting...

          Comment


          • #25
            Wish you and your team actually replied to posts that are more important than this thread where players ask questions or make reasonable suggestions. I mean look at the thought out long response you have defending yourself and your team, yet pretty much every other thread just gets completely ignored. Guess it just shows where your priorities lie...

            Comment


            • SuavGlav
              SuavGlav commented
              Editing a comment
              I would argue that, since CL doesn't interact with a lot of the parts of the game where we feel our feedback is being ignored, she should be focusing her time doing her job and handling security. I would argue in tandem that someone whose job is actually customer relations should be responding to us, doing it consistently, and doing it with actual intent as opposed to the Lip Service Crap Special we've been served over the past several months.

              I'm looking forward to more from this one:

              http://wardragons.pocketgems.com/for...382#post153382

          • #26
            Unrelated to this topic but the ban was a joke.

            Back to business.

            Where the heck is Joseph 2.0 ehrm EggToken these days?

            I think it's nice that CL is active in forums but 99% of the threads address other work streams.

            PGJared is a service manager so also not his piece of cake.

            Can you guys ask Michael Fedor your VP to come here?

            I mean we can surely move back and forth without any result or we get someone who doesn't need 2. Supervisior review before posting something constructive here.

            At the end of the day Diamond did a spending boycott and if it's that what you want so be it.

            I for one don't want that but maybe it's necessarily.

            Diamond and Sapphire I we should go back to the round table and discuss what was changed since our last boycott.
            Last edited by Warlord; 4 weeks ago.

            Comment


            • SuavGlav
              SuavGlav commented
              Editing a comment
              This. All of it.

            • XxTrue1xX
              XxTrue1xX commented
              Editing a comment
              This X100,000,000,000,000,000...

              Bump Bump Bump

          • #27
            Regarding "why arent isn't someone responding to everything i say on the forum", here's a cut & paste of something I wrote previously on this topic. to be clear, not everything i wrote here relates to this thread, but some of it does which i've put in bold: http://wardragons.pocketgems.com/for...-communication

            ----

            TL;DR: Finding and training people to communicate is a lot harder than it looks at first blush. It's a lot of work -- more than capacity of what can be done in a day. Our current team prioritizes processing helpshift tickets over responding to the latest forum thread. I think that's probably the right priority.
            • I'm glad you like my posts. thanks
            • Grabbing random people off the street and asking them to do communication is not right (it's also kinda rude to imply that it is). The job is actually pretty hard. War Dragons is a very vast product with a lot to understand, with an active community full of different diverse requests and opinions, also under very active development with a very big team making active changes all the time. It takes a lot of skill, hard work and training to learn the product, keep abreast of everything going on and proper ways to respond to the community. I've been working on war dragons since 2012 and I don't feel qualified to give the answer to a good portion of the questions on this forum. People on this forum love to make fun of bad responses found in Helpshift --- it's because we're trying to grow the team of people responding to customers but it takes a long time to train, learn everything and give proper responses. Taking random people off the street is almost certain to fail -- you have to really want to learn a huge amount of things about the game/community/development in order to really get good at it. Most random people off the street won't do it. Since War Dragons has grown so much, there's now many many people working on improving the product. This means there's huge amount of changes happening all the time and lots of work to stay abreast of everything that's happening -- a huge portion of their job is staying on top of everything that's going on. I know I personally can't keep up with all the meetings and emails to know everything while also doing my normal job (securing the game). I know people like PGJared / Echo / EggToken / DragonPunch aren't going to stick up for themselves here so I will do it for them: They definitely work very hard and their jobs aren't easy. Please don't imply that random people off the street can do it.
            • Even assuming we have a ton more people working on responding to players, it's not totally clear that spending their time working on the forums is the right place to be putting those resources. Obviously both you & I like using the forums and enjoy using it as a communication channel, but realistically a very tiny percentage of our playerbase even reads the forums, let alone writes any posts on the forums. In contrast, we have a huge and ever growing pile of tickets in our helpshift support system (which is used by a much larger portion of our playerbase). Which one is higher value to respond to: The servicing the backlog of helpshift tickets from players saying they're locked out the game and don't know why -- or the latest post on the forums? As much as I personally enjoy reading/writing on these forums, I also recognize that I would prioritize improving the service of the helpshift tickets backlog. A lot of why you don't see PGJared/EggToken/DragonPunch responding to the latest forum thread is because they're focusing on improving our helpshift ticket processing. On this vein, our team has made huge progress improving out service on helpshift ticketing --- we've made big steps on response time and quality of response. This isn't easy -- you need to find and train a team of people to do it (see previous paragraph -- it's definitely not easy to build such a team). Even with that team in place, it actually takes a ton of work to respond to a ticket properly --- need to know enough about the product to know how what they're talking about, do a bunch of research to figure out how to fix their problem, and then work with the R&D team to execute the fix. Concrete example: If we had another fully trained person right now, I personally wouldn't prioritize putting them on this forum --- I'd personally prioritize them towards working on our helpshift tickets helping process people appealing bans, knowing enough about the system to give good reasons why they were banned, and knowing enough to say when a ban was inappropriate and knowing how to take the steps to unban and give proper restitution.
            • I don't want to make it sound like we don't care about this forum at all -- we do. A good portion of the R&D team reads the latest posts on the forum on a daily basis. We definitely take the temperature on the forum as one of our datapoints to measure for how we're doing. But putting in the work to respond properly is another matter --- addressed by the previous two points.
            Last edited by CampusLifer; 4 weeks ago.

            Comment


            • SuavGlav
              SuavGlav commented
              Editing a comment
              • Nobody expects a reply to every single thing they say; we do expect some sort of timely response so we're not sitting around scratching our heads for days or weeks on end. There is a HUGE difference between not responding to everything and hardly responding to anything.

              • It's not a 'communication channel' when only one party participates. How are we supposed to know if anyone is fielding our feedback and concerns when we can't even get answers to direct questions half the time, and the other half the time the response we get is from an admin who doesn't even interact with that area of the game?! What indications do we have that anyone is listening when, after months of feedback from us, runes and spells are still glitchy, economy is still screwy, gold chests are still full of sand, but here comes Atlas?!?!

              • If there's not enough resources to have someone who can consistently interact with players on your 'communication channel', that's PG's problem-- not ours. Patience may be a virtue, but even virtuous people can only last so long talking to a brick wall.

          • #28
            Really? You banned Shen for telling you that you should be fixing bugs in the game? If you ban everyone who tells you that you should be fixing the bugs in the game you will be sitting in here talking to yourselves.

            Awe, I guess the truth hurts PG!

            Comment


            • #29
              To be clear:
              • There are two separate things in one thread.
                • Someone giving negative feedback.
                • The same person also being rude and making other toxic posts outside of this thread.
              • The person is being banned for #2 (toxic communication). Not #1.
              • Someone will not be banned for giving negative feedback as long as it is phrased in a constructive non-toxic way.
              • Toxic communication can result in being banned. This is orthogonal to what they are saying about PG. Someone could be saying very nice thing about PG in a post, but if they're also including toxic behavior, they can be banned. Someone could be saying very negative things about PG in a post, but if they're also including toxic communication, they can be banned.
              • We may have become lax about banning lately, but none of this is new.
              • In all of this, "toxic behavior" is defined as communicating in a way which is inappropriate. That is not the same thing as bugs, problems in a events, not making code or economy changes fast enough. I don't accept any argument that "since PG didn't deliver change X that I wanted, it's OK for people to communicate in a way which is toxic".
              Last edited by CampusLifer; 4 weeks ago.

              Comment


              • #30
                So now I get, it's our fault for the lack of communication and we should be more understanding to the fact you just don't hav qualified people to respond to the many issues brought up? Again, look at all the attention you (and even Jared) have put in this thread yet, I when I read the past 15 different topics (THAT ACTUALLY HAS TO DO WITH THE GAME) 14 out 15 not one response from PG. Think your actually the only one that does respond to some things CL so at least appreciate the fact you actually at least try...

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