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  • Clocks

    PGJared EggToken Echo

    There was a thread on how the time cost has been increasing but yet the timers needed to support his have pretty stayed untouched. So...?

  • #2
    >
    > There was a thread on how the time cost has been increasing but yet the timers needed to support his have pretty stayed untouched. So...?

    that thread was posted 2 weeks ago. in the case that we were to make a massive change to the game economy it wouldn't happen anywhere close to two weeks time. For context, the "league change" project was a no brainer "yes, this is definitely the right thing to do" and it took multiple months to roll out (it's still not done). This project is 5-10x bigger project. to be clear, no decision has been made to make a change.
    Last edited by CampusLifer; 3 weeks ago.

    Comment


    • Cameron90
      Cameron90 commented
      Editing a comment
      Well that's just ridiculous, but thanks for the response nonetheless.

  • #3
    Not trying to be sarcastic here, but isn't the inverse also true?

    Each time you release new tower levels and new dragons you massively change the economy, yet this is done quickly and with little consideration how this screws with player-economic balance?

    The implentation of 45-48-50 towers and emerald and obsidian tiers happened only a couple of months apart yet it easily doubled the timer requirements for endgame.

    Surely if economic balance was the goal, or more precisely not scewing it in any direction, then each time you adjusted the endgame by say 25-50-100 percent you should have adjusted timers by the same amount to have a net zero.

    As is all that the playerbase is asking, is that you fix what you omitted to do, so balance can be restored to some degree.

    Comment


    • #4
      Hi. I'm just trying to set expectations properly. A change like this isn't a 2 week fix. Sorry -- not gonna happen.

      It's easy to walk into starbucks and say "It's insane that I pay $5 for coffee and wait in line for 10 minutes. Everything should cost half as much and there should be twice as many employees working here so I never need to wait in line. And the store should be bigger so I have a seat open to enjoy my expensive coffee. It never should have been this expensive in the first place -- these idiots should have done this yesterday." Maybe that's the right thing to do, but Starbucks can't just pull the trigger and suddenly on a dime cut their prices in half and double their staff tomorrow without seriously risking going bankrupt. Their entire business is built on a certain financial model --- the costs of materials, marketing costs, rent & facilities, wages paypoint is all built on certain assumptions of how many customers they receive and how much they generate per customer. If they want to make a change like that, they need to do experiments, make sure it won't tank the business, etc. If Starbucks decided to even try to do it, I bet they would experiment in a few locations for six months to see what the implications are (the risk of 1 store going bankrupt is much more ok than all of the stores) and put together a big team of analytics people to figure out what to do. From a customer perspective, of course it would be better if you never had to wait in line and if everything was massively cheaper. It's very possible that is the right thing to do; maybe more than 4x the customers will start coming to the store to buy coffee if they do this and it'll work. But maybe not -- maybe you end up needing to layoff everyone and close all your stores. Maybe it's the right idea, but the exact numbers shouldn't be cutting the price in half and doubling the staff. So --- how much cheaper should the coffee be and how much should they adjust their other costs (headcount, marketing, etc)? Obviously if prices go down to $0.01 per coffee they will go bankrupt. It takes time to figure out what the right numbers are.
      Last edited by CampusLifer; 3 weeks ago.

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      • Dravoz
        Dravoz commented
        Editing a comment
        That's a disingenuous analogy. You're only talking about one side of the discussion - customers wanting things cheaper. You fail to address the issue of exponential cost increase. As mentioned above, PG seem happy to drastically increase costs without lengthy discussions. When we ask for balance to be restored suddenly it's a massive project that will bring the company down if you get it wrong.

      • Chromat1
        Chromat1 commented
        Editing a comment
        Why do u bother with these lengthy off base posts? It just seems you have no grasp of the plight of players. This analgy is wrong on so many levels.

      • Shenanigans
        Shenanigans commented
        Editing a comment
        This entire post is completely incorrect. You should have chosen a different corporation. Have someone in your finance department explain their balance sheet to you and explain the different ways that they could properly budget your theoretical plan. I'm not saying they would do that, but in no way would they be risking bankruptcy. In fact, dropping the price by half would likely increase the demand for Starbucks, as shown by their increase in demand for Fraps this past May (hope you enjoyed your half priced Fraps).

    • #5
      PG's idea of balance is revenue goes UP as much as possible even at the cost of players return on investment falling through the floor. Everything in the game has progressively increased in cost while drop rates have actually decreased over time. Look at gold chests screenshots from over a year ago when they had 5k egg token drops, 100 heal potions etc. At this point, the game is solely designed around milking players for as much as possible before they finally give up and quit.

      Comment


      • #6
        CampusLifer That thread was made a couple weeks ago but the sentiment has been going on for months...I think since gold chests came out it has been significantly decreasing. After about Gold Tier it all started growing cost wise at an unsustainable rate. So while yes, this thread was made recently. The topic is hardly new.

        Comment


        • #7
          Hey folks,

          Discussion about adding more and larger expedites is definitely a discussion we can have. We still need to have some more conversations internally though before we can say anything externally.

          Comment


          • Chromat1
            Chromat1 commented
            Editing a comment
            Funny how everything can easily double in price over night but it takes months of "discussion" to alieve a worsening situation.

          • Indi123
            Indi123 commented
            Editing a comment
            It would be preferable if the conversation (and hopefully action) was to revolve around scaling the timers for higher levels rather than dumping in a bigger clock which costs substantially more. Timers obtained by purchasing value packs and opening gold chests should scale, same as they do with food/wood packs. Right now they are pretty much worthless. 50 gold chests (approx £80 in real money) recently got me 114 x 12 hour timers. Enough to level a single tower once from 49-50. A level 100 player could have a field day building their base up with 114 12 hour timers. XP, food and wood are all scaled for level, timers really need to be as well.

          • Spooky
            Spooky commented
            Editing a comment
            As usual Indi123 nails it--the lack of timer scaling makes value packs have far less value for high levels. I see no reason why wood and food scale but timers don't. Everyone should get appropriate value for supporting the app with purchases.

        • #8
          Hi. I've spent a lot of energy in the last few weeks participating in 2-3 active threads on the topic of tight game economy. If you want to read my views, please see prior threads.

          The point I'm trying to make is setting realistic expectations for timeline, even in the case that we decide to do this. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but that's the actual possible speed that this kind of thing can happen.

          Comment


          • Mechengg
            Mechengg commented
            Editing a comment
            @campuslifer

            As an avid supporter of what you say you hit the nail on the head with this response. You need to see how the game would change due to fluctuations in the economy changing and do some models, tweak, model, tweak until there is a place you see fitting. The only request i ask is that this tweaking not be to hit current times in the game, rather to tweak it towards the targets this game should be expecting in the tier release 3-6 months from when you are planning the release to be done. Model it further out ahead because you know that roadblocks will be hit and you know it will take a few weeks longer to roll out than planned. Then you need to get used to players adjusting over a few months for it to finally settle in by the time frame you had designed for.

            AKA something like below:

            Month 1 - Decide that changes need to be made
            Month 2 - Schedule out the changes and plan to release in month 4. Plan around the towers and dragons (economically speaking) that you expect to be available in month 10 of said schedule, not month 4...
            ...work
            ...work & test
            ...rework
            Month 4 - Not quite ready for implementation, more testing with beta group
            Month 5 - Partial rollout to larger beta group
            Month 6 - Real rollout
            Month 7 - Player adjustment
            Month 8 - Economy settling
            Month 9 - Event release screwed economy, needs to resettle again
            Month 10 - Economic changes realized as planned for in month 2

          • Jeff8682
            Jeff8682 commented
            Editing a comment
            Hopefully this isn't on the same timeline as the gold chest content dilution you(PG) have been looking into for two years. If this situation was something that could possibly benefit players, you would have a hotfix out for it in two days. The economy reasons you give are total BS because you have actually lowered the drop rates over time and that didn't require two years of research.
            PGJared

          • Ian
            Ian commented
            Editing a comment
            Jeff8682

            most of player base fall for pg's magical nonsense. That's two lots of stupid.

            Others have realised and left and the rest have stopped/decreased spending, but still play.

            If pocket grinch could, they'll charge you everytime to log in

        • #9
          Folks be careful what you wish for. If we get new clocks like 24 hours expect build times of 100+ days.

          They will always want end game stuff to be exclusive so don't get disillusional here.

          The changes they will make at some point will affect mid level players (Lv 200ish).

          They already did it. Lv 20-40 towers are now significantly cheaper than they were back when I built them.

          But no matter what will come Lv 55/60/65/etc towers will always cost a fortune.
          Last edited by Warlord; 3 weeks ago.

          Comment


          • SuavGlav
            SuavGlav commented
            Editing a comment
            My hope is that PG recognizes what several of us have been saying across multiple threads over multiple months-- that getting to end game content is far less important to most of us than a smoother scale. A mountain is hard to climb; a cliff is damn near impossible (with all due respect to Andre the Giant).

        • #10
          I agree that it shouldn't be too easy to obtain BUT I do think with the addition of all the new stuff AND the potential of how much the beta has, this does need a hard look. Also build times for the beta ARE already 100+ days, just saying.

          I am not really saying they should make it just, just have it scale in a more linear fashion, not exponentially (a bit of exaggeration, but still) in cost.

          Comment


          • #11
            Hi. My understanding is the 100+ day timers are building team-wide stuff in the worldmap which is a timer shared across 50 teammates building something together. am i wrong?
            Last edited by CampusLifer; 3 weeks ago.

            Comment


            • Cameron90
              Cameron90 commented
              Editing a comment
              As I said in the beta forum, most teams have multiple islands all of which have upgrades going. So the 50 player team argument doesn't work for me.

          • #12
            ok,s ure. it's a little disingenuous to say the game already contains 100+ day timers in a the general discussion forum for an audience who doesn't understand the nuance of what that means.

            Comment


            • SuavGlav
              SuavGlav commented
              Editing a comment
              To be fair, a lot of the issues related to the core game that have been brought up in these general forums over the past few months have been met with justification of the beta from PG staff.

              It cuts both ways.

          • #13
            It will definitely help to mitigate this issue if you could release the salvage shop to everyone with all the timers back in the daily shop.

            Comment


            • #14
              They will soon learn the pain of it CampusLifer but as I said in the last thread, its what 60d PER Level PER Tower? And yet the duration of clocks and the rate at which they can be obtain is either the same or slower...so basically, artificially increasing demand while keeping or shorting supply. I believe this would be called price gouging. I mean it's your game but I just think it isnt a good long term strategy, I see the beta sinking fast and the core game following if this is the case.

              Comment


              • Warlord
                Warlord commented
                Editing a comment
                This 👆

            • #15
              Epic 1 hour x 25 good for level 1-40. Towers should should from 15 minutes- 5 days.

              Highest level in game is 40 for people that don't know. Pocket grinch aren't that stupid !!!
              Last edited by Ian; 3 weeks ago.
              Commend my persistence ^.^

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