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PG using frustration of players for income

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  • PG using frustration of players for income

    There has been a statement or a post about a year or so ago about PG using frustration to "push" players into spending. This horrifyingly ingenious approach destroys the fun factor for players but brings revenue to PG. A frustrated mind doesn't think as rational as a calm mind, and PG is well aware of that.

    A current statement from CampusLifer on the base destruction animation further confirms this:

    "I agree it's annoying -- that's actually the point. When we were building this feature, the name of the project was "Defender Gets Pissed". There's a long story about how/why we added it. It's actually kinda important -- if you look at other games (e.g., clash of clans) they do similar things."

    The past year or so has shown this to be true, with more and more players leaving, event tiers spreads, achievements nerfed and dragon tiers releasing within a shorter than ever timespam. Building levels keep rising and it now take months to finish them, but timers remaine the same as they were 2 years ago.

    ***This post is to remind PG that what has been done with EGG TOKENS needs to be done across the board with other items as well.

    ***This is to remind PG they should not show a small flashy object in front of our face just to take everything else from our back pockets when we are not looking.

    ***This is to STOP PG from having to chase them and show them their 20-50-100% nerfs when they pretend they actually "made it better". We are not fools.

    ***This is to remind PG we are no longer getting value for our money and time. In fact, it is sometimes better to not spend time playing than actually do play and use all kinds of resources just to get 30% of them back and 1 extra item at the end (sigils).

    We need changes:

    1. Timers are one important commodity
    We need 5-7 day timers without nerfing the others. These should be an addition to not a replacement of.

    2. Dragon cost
    There has to be adjustment to the amount of tokens a dragon costs and/or backbreed options

    3. Attention needs to be redirected from BETA to the actual game! We want to fly dragons and be Dragonlords. We did not download a boat game to be Pirates!

    4. Stop using frustration and try to harvest happiness, excitement, rewarding players. Show respect to your players and don't approach us only as numbers on spreadsheets.

    5. Sigil gaps can't keep increasing 30% per event without giving us 30% more access to sigils obtained via playing and not spending.

    It is sad for players such as myself who spend more than two years on this game to see the direction this game is taking. The game is completely out of balance and it is dying. Players are dying with it.

    Days have become happier without WarDragons. We are considered fools, walking wallets and not valued customers.

    Our protesting voices are not being heard. PG's answers are showing a total disconnect. Ideas are forced upon players with them screaming and shouting infront of the gates.

    We need change! We need transparency! Yesterday!
    Last edited by Wings; 08-27-2017, 11:18 AM.

  • #2
    I couldn't agree more.

    Comment


    • #3
      I wrote a similar post a few days ago... campus lifer responded with... I don't understand. I'm not sure if PG is really that stupid or if they are just playing dumb. But I've decided PG is a brick wall and I'm tired of bashing my head into it to get them to listen. I stopped spending any money. I'm not buying the worthless garbage they keep shoving at us. This will prob screw the players more then anything because as more people stop buying the more pg jacks up prices to compensate for their losses.

      Comment


      • War fan
        War fan commented
        Editing a comment
        I would have to assume that they are playing dumb.

        This issue has been posted at least a dozen times already.

    • #4
      That statement from CampusLifer is astonishing. Almost as good as the one month cheater ban statement. It is rare for a corporation to unveil its true contempt for its customers. What they don't realize, and I don't know how they are doing as a corporation, is that long lasting successful corporations are not based on an us vs them attitude. They make lots of money while respecting the people who pay their salaries and by improving customer satisfaction. It is abundantly clear, increasingly over the past several months, that those employees who were truly supportive are gone and ​​​that underlying the elaborate courtesy of the prewritten CS responses is condescension for us. The simple fact that without any consideration of customers who have invested huge amounts of time and money in War Dragons and who love the game, and are having the rug pulled under them and having a new game substituted for WD, one which is nearly universally hated. Clearly the motivation is financial. I believe they don't care if most of us go away. They can just start over. Why not? They already have our money.

      Comment


      • VirNinja
        VirNinja commented
        Editing a comment
        Campuslifer also stated on another post that pgs main focus on beta wasn't about profit! πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ how stupid do they think we are????

    • #5
      Right on buddy! Well written

      Comment


      • #6
        First off if you are under the illusion that this is not a glorified gambling app go and look at the other top grossing apps in the itunes store, mostly casino this and vegas that. Its really sad that the fantastic possibilities we have for mobile gaming today are reduced to this. The whales are victims suffering from serious addiction and impulse control. If you want real games get a console or new awesome PC and a dozen tittles, OR buy some WD packs lol. I really want more laws about this kind of thing because its just down right bad for the human race, especially kids. This is advertising 2.0 psychologically designed to get you as much as possible. But hey that never stopped money yet!

        Comment


        • #7
          I agree with the OP
          .

          Comment


          • Spooky
            Spooky commented
            Editing a comment
            I definitely agree with a lot of the specific critiques, though as someone with a lot of experience with F2P games, I'm sure you realize that frustration/pinch points are an essential part of the design of freemium games like this. Frustrate players and offer relief of a sort through IAPs. Addictive, repetitive gameplay, frustration/pinch points, gambling style rewards. That's the business model, distilled to its simplest essence of most every freemium game I can think of.

          • gaza8143
            gaza8143 commented
            Editing a comment
            Spooky you hit the nail on the head. They like to use "stockholm syndrome" ( where the captive falls in love with the captor ) as an emotional lever to keep us in game.

            They still need to balance it out though or captives will escape or murder the captor

        • #8
          I have no problem paying for entertainment. The problem is the entertainment isn't worth the price. It's like going to a 5 star fine dinning restaurant where you walk away with a $600 bill; the only problem is you were served a day old donut and a $0.99 hamburger from McDonald's. Price has far exceeded value. I'm just waiting for my wife to be ready to quit again. This time I won't try to stop her.

          Comment


          • CaptainC
            CaptainC commented
            Editing a comment
            I'll miss both of you if that happens. Maybe we need a retired player Line chat.

          • SilentOne
            SilentOne commented
            Editing a comment
            Maybe if you quit she'll follow!

          • Rakic
            Rakic commented
            Editing a comment
            CaptainC we should absolutely get a chat for that.

        • #9
          Hi.

          I'm not a PR person or officially work in customer support -- I'm a computer programmer. I post on this forum for enjoyment and because I care about the community. I have the ability to talk off the cuff in a conversational way -- most companies would require that employee communication goes through a PR-team screening to scrub everything I write before coming out. I'm personally happy to work somewhere without all the corporate requirements. I'd like to think my posts are helping (not hurting) PG's relationship/communication with the community.

          That said, this is the 6th post today twisting my words to make some sort of point against me or PG. I'm starting to understand why most corporations do not have employees post on their forums unless it's through pre-written official statements. Please don't continue this practice of twisting everything I write as ammo to attack PG. I will need to stop posting if this keeps happening.
          Last edited by CampusLifer; 08-28-2017, 09:25 AM.

          Comment


          • Dakhunter
            Dakhunter commented
            Editing a comment
            Your posts help ease out the frustration of the Players with PG. Among all the PG employees on forum, you respond to our posts the most. I appreciate your responses to most of our posts and please do keep it up. Just ignore these kind of posts because everyone will use your words to twist against the company.

          • laserlight
            laserlight commented
            Editing a comment
            Can you clarify how the quote is twisting your words? Your statement sounded like a defense for a mechanic that was designed to antagonize players, which players were making a suggestion to optionally disable it. And yet you didn't explain to us why it was an important and valid mechanic that players had to endure.

          • Frequincy
            Frequincy commented
            Editing a comment
            There is no twist in words from what i have seen it seems players have broken down various issues in layman's terms for you to kinda help you understand their frustration but in your response you clearly dance around the issues at hand so yes it may be time for you to hold back on responding to things as youre clearly not ready for the communications aspect of these forums
            Last edited by Frequincy; 08-29-2017, 10:26 AM.

        • #10
          Well that response pretty much sums up the professionalism of this company....Thanks again for proving what everyone has and will continue to post.

          Comment


          • #11
            Hey folks, this thread is seriously pushing the bounds of civility. CL is not on the PX / Support team, nor are they a mod or admin. CL is an engineer who comes onto the forum to try to shed some light on things that happen behind the scenes. Their style is a bit rough, because they're coming at this from a personal place of wanting to discuss things with players and inform you. The last thing CL is is contemptuous of players. If they held contempt for players that could just zip their mouths and not go on the forum ever and just do their job. Instead CL comes on here very regularly to share with y'all. Agree or disagree with them all you want, but I suggest keeping that in mind and please try to be civil.

            I get that folks are frustrated with certain aspects of the game. Our team is listening, and CL is a major part of that. I get that folks feel like we move at a glacial pace when it comes to improving the things they want improved or fixing the things they want fixed. We are bringing on new staff to help address that issue. We are trying to tackle specific perceived pain points in the game like dragon breeding, event rewards, leagues, etc; but these things take time. You are free to express your frustration all you want, but I implore you not to let it get to the point of personal attacks against staff or other forum users. I really don't want to have to hand out bans.

            Comment


            • PGJared
              PGJared commented
              Editing a comment
              Dravoz, I use the term "perceived pain points" because some of the pain points brought up (not necessarily the ones in this thread) have been found to cause a decrease in engagement (not spend, engagement) when we made them less painful. So, in some cases the friction is needed. In other cases there's room for improvement.

              In no way am I trying to claim that the frustration players feel is incorrect, or that anyone's feelings are invalid. Just that some folks perceive things differently from others, and that sometimes friction ends up being a positive. I had a whole big post about certain friction points but I think I left it on my work computer (whoops); assuming it's still there in the morning I'll post it.

            • Dravoz
              Dravoz commented
              Editing a comment
              Interesting. I will be very keen to hear more on that. I find it hard to believe that fixing any of the things I rattled off would decrease engagement though. I was highly engaged, and a moderate spender. I am now disengaged, and no longer spend. Sadly, the game is just no fun now. Moderate spending doesn't let me progress at a reasonable speed anymore, token runs are a pointless drop in the bucket, and events are boring and unrewarding (especially without buying packs to bring in energy and IF). I know I'm not alone.

            • Frequincy
              Frequincy commented
              Editing a comment
              I can't help that PGs communication isnt great good or alright maybe you or someone else should have be on the forums to lighten her load so she didn't have to respond as she clearly isn't ready so No that was no personal attack that was a Fact , and if you or PG need any help in this department im more then willing to help in any way I can

          • #12
            Understood...with that said I have re-read this thread twice and for the most part all I read is players who have a passion for this game that are simply posting their frustrations and backing them up with facts, not personally attacking CL...

            Comment


            • #13
              Players unite make them listen stop buying there packs don't buy game resources that should be gotten through game play they have made it next to impossible to gain enough resources in game to make any head way in the game or any event

              we hold old the power as gamers to make them change things if we refuse to fall for there ploys over these matters if we don't buy there pack alarm bells will ring in hq as there will be no sales of there game resources

              the sooner players realise we hold we hold the power to make them change things the better

              prime example of this is them adding a new season dragon into the mix near the end of the season bang out of order all dragons and rewards should be there at start of season so players can make there choice of things with out feeling like they are being cheated out of things or forced to buy things to get them

              And this new game content they are bringing out dragon riders is just another attempt to squeeze more cash out of us that to will be by frustration due to the length of time it will take to gain resources to make the gear

              all they are doing is treating us like idiots and insulting our intelligence bye doing thing in this way and treating the game as a huge cash cow and hitting it as hard and as often as posable with there golden waking sticks

              gamers unite stand togeter make them listen and make them change we have the power not them with out us they have no game no business remember that and don't pay for there over priced things in this way

              Enough is enough it's our time now money is getting tighter for everyone around the world and gaming is an escape for people to get away from things and all they are doing is adding to people's hard ship by trying to make them pay so much for in game stuff

              Comment


              • Dravoz
                Dravoz commented
                Editing a comment
                I tried to organise a spending boycott once. The big spenders are addicts and aren't likely to stop until it's too late for the game.

            • #14
              PGJared CampusLifer

              This was in no way, shape or form a personal attack on CL.
              Also, there was no twisting of words as the post was literally a copy+paste. The meaning wasn't twisted either, as the original post refers to frustration of players and this post does exactly the same. So I am not sure where the confusion comes from.

              To clear things up, the recent egg token increase and addressing spells for the initial release of still current divines were started and put into action based on forum posts. The purpose of of this post was the same. It's not personal!!!

              By that said, this forum is the only channel between players and PG i.e. customer and developer - to bring awareness to problems (other than opening tickets, which doesnt really bring results). We have no idea who works where and I (we) do appreciate feedback from ANYONE at PG.

              But if we cannot post and communicate here without being heard & if posts will be taken personally, not professionally, I really don't know what else can players do. Obviously, if things were going well we would not have posts like this.
              Last edited by Wings; 08-28-2017, 02:48 PM.

              Comment


              • Rakic
                Rakic commented
                Editing a comment
                We could quit playing, it is by far the most effective way. PG.J. Is right though. They do move at a glacial pace. There are things that were being addressed years ago that are still being addressed. Mind you, if any glitch arrises that benefits the player the game is shut down and a patch is launched immediately. If there is a pain point for the players, they might get to that in the next 7 iterations of the event....maybe.

              • PGJared
                PGJared commented
                Editing a comment
                CL doesn't say it's to push someone to spend, just to push them to take an action. In the case of the base destruction, it's to push them to review attacks against them. Adding friction to games is done in basically every game ever created. In an extreme case, we can look at Dark Souls. That game is basically all about friction points. The way they display the "You Died" screen? Totally meant to frustrate you and motivate you to give it another shot. They want you pissed off at the game and raring to go for another round. We don't really want you pissed off at the game at all, but we do want you to see that you were attacked and motivate you to get your revenge. Does that mean spend? Well, not really. Revenge attacks aren't really something that makes us a ton of money, but they are something that gets rivalries (friendly or otherwise) going and engages players in the game.

            • #15
              That's how all free-to-play games work. You pay for instant gratification/convenience/power. Face reality. There are far more ways PG could be worse with things, but they aren't. Obviously, things like breeding, research, and league restructure need change, but again, CL's stating a fact. PR is probably face palming, but I thought it was amusing /shrug, though I also agree that the increased lag isn't going to be prompting additional spending any time soon.
              [ITIL isn't my IGN]
              XP Calculator, Days to Level, XP Lookup, Evo Stone Level Lookup

              Comment


              • Rakic
                Rakic commented
                Editing a comment
                There are 100s of articles on that very subject. Yes, all F2P games prey on your frustration to motivate you to spend. That's the name of the game. That's how candy crush encourages the occasional spend by tossing in a really hard level every now and again that you mightn't get frustrated enough to spend to pass. I've never done it personally, but I know tons who have.

                The big issue is that the spread has become so wide between whales and everyone else that the everyone else has lost the incentive to spend. Oh sure, occasionally someone might think oh let me try to spend and "catch up" but they usually soon realize that catching up is typically only for the extremely wealthy. most sensible players realize that your $100's is absolutely not worth it. In the past 100 would get you a dragon that was pretty useful for a while (darja). Now it's a drop in the proverbial bucket. You might as well piss on a 5 alarm fire (like the World Trade Center) it is just as effective. I know so many people that use to spend a hundred or a couple of hundred a month but when there was no value for the money (because the cost grows exponentially instead of at a slight inflation) they quit spending all together.

                People tend to spend when they are close to a milestone achievement. Preferably one that makes them feel like they can contribute to the team.

                If you tell a fat man he can have a candy bar at the end of his one mile walk, he might walk the mile and get his candy bar. If you tell him he can have a candy bar after his triathlon he will probably tell you bugger off and will go get a candy bar somewhere else.

                Just my 2 cents
                Last edited by Rakic; 08-29-2017, 03:02 AM. Reason: Autocorrupt adds things like it knows what I want to say

              • ITIL
                ITIL commented
                Editing a comment
                Rakic, while I agree with your comment on the decreased usefulness of spending and how it pretty much drops off, I don't agree with people who take CL's honest/straightforward posts and turn it into something more than it is, especially when CL (and others) give us the transparency that we ask for... then people jump down their throats. No one wants to spend a bunch of extra time on posts that aren't even a part of their job if they need to start worrying about people getting all sensitive over it.

                During the dry spell of less PG staff involvement, the forums were less interesting/informative, because it was pretty much just duplicate complaints or people swinging around epeens.

              • Rakic
                Rakic commented
                Editing a comment
                Oh sure, I agree with you there. I'd rather have CampusLifer continue to post and be honest. I like to posses the information I need to make decisions. I generally find CL's post informative. Shame CL gets quoted because it is very possible that Pg will make the devs discontinue posting unless it is a preapproved statement which will take forever and will probably be four to be such a pain in the ass they quit posting all together then we can go back to the vacuum of communication we temporarily enjoyed.
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