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Clock Issue...Again

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  • Clock Issue...Again

    EggToken Echo So here we are again, new towers, the beta, whatever "new" stuff you guys come up with. The 12hr clock has been around for years. Back when builds took a FRACTION of the time. And yet, neither a 24hr clock has been released or has the drop rate of these really been scaled. Most recently I saw in the beta, a building took 122 days.

    Lets put that in perspective now. That is 244 12hr clocks. A SINGLE level on a tower is 55d. That is 110 12hr clocks. If you are lucky you get 1-2 drops of 15 x 12 hours or 50 x 3 hours. So, at best you get 30 x 12 hours per 10 gold chests at a price of 4k gems (Thank god I get those ice and fire shards though). So a SINGLE tower would take about 3.5 tries. so lets just say 3. That is 12k gems. So to level up say 5 islands on a smaller base... that would take 60k gems/island or 300k/gems per base/level, rough $1,100 USD.

    Seriously? You think this shit is fun or sustainable. Once fucking hard is it to understand. You are completely gouging your player base because you do nothing but increase your demand (clocks needed) but keep the supply static. And you probably wonder why there are so many people at the upper levels quitting the game?

    I don't know how else to put this because being called greedy assholes isn't fun for you I'm sure (or maybe it is?) but just because you built a game people enjoy (kudos for that) doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to test how willing they are to keep playing it. Purposely trying to leverage their desire into the highest possible gain before it breaks is being just that...greedy assholes.

    I would love to at least get some reply (I'm sure it will be a bunch of bs but surprise me perhaps). How does the amount of clocks keep growing at a rate that far, far outpaces the amount you can obtain?
    Last edited by Panda; 08-14-2017, 03:42 PM.

  • #2
    Clocks and tokens have the same issue. Plus one !

    The other sad thing is that after level40 fort points per clock scales really badly. So you get even less event rewards for investing in ridiculous clock times.
    Last edited by DirtBanga; 08-14-2017, 04:08 PM.


    • #3
      Most other games I play as towers increase then so do the clocks. For example 'game of war' bought out 1 day clocks, then 3 day clocks , 5 day etc etc they now have 500 day clocks.

      War Dragons should at a minimum have 7 day clocks by now.

      At low 200s ( I know , Puny compared to Panda ) a $100 value pack gets me 2 levels? How exciting! 2 levels wont stop L150s from rolling my base.

      I would love to buy more value packs but I just don't see any value and this is why other games have 10x the revenue of war dragons because other games give real value for $100.


      • #4
        They keep doing it because people keep spending and spending. Sure lots of high lvl people are quitting or dropping down a league, but look many max Noctuas do you see flying around? Lots. How many bases full of lvl 50 towers do you see? Lots. How many people bitch about it, but will have a base full of 60s 2 days after theyre released? You guessed it...lots.


        • #5
          Im surprised people are still putting up with PGs greed and not slamming on the brakes and saying wtf.

          Look at how drastically costs have increased since Fall Season with zero scaling and minimal increase in breeding tokens.

          I am willing to bet money that majority of their time PG spends having meetings on how they can squeeze in more bs content and charge arm and a leg for it. Prime example are the rune chests that they charged a crazy amount of rubies for then when they couldn't move the profit needle they dropped the ruby cost. Same goes for last season when they charged an extra 1,000 rubies for their new double sig chests after they said they would cost the same amount as gold chests.

          Currently the company is purely being driven by profit alone. Balance went out the window and all new content will purely be to make PG huge amounts of profit.

          You can clearly see that because they are ignoring a lot of things. Research, runes for new spells, runes for new towers, league prize balance, ignoring huge drop amounts of ice and fire shards, spell glitches, clocks, new forge spells/levels etc, I can keep going and going.

          Two things will happen, either the big spenders will realize they are being taken advantage of OR PG will run the game into the ground because lack of scaling, game balance and progression.


          • #6
            Egg tokens are way easier to come by than enough clocks to maintain a reasonably high level base. I said my piece in another post about timers but I had seen Echo insinuate LEVEL 60 towers are upon us. I want to believe this is a typo. Please let it be a typo. Say tower times aren't increased. So it's around 47 days for one level with research. To get one tower alone from 50 to 60 will be 940 12 hr timers. At 15 for a legendary drop and 4 for an epic drop, how is that remotely sustainable??

            I'm not saying everyone should be able to max their base. Or even close to it. But at some point PG has got to realise that by making it so prohibitively expensive to upgrade anything or remain competitive, especially when you're competing with cheats so much of the time, and gold chests being such terrible value for money, people will give up and simply stop spending.


            • gaza8143
              gaza8143 commented
              Editing a comment
              You forgot the exciting 25x 1hr clocks!!

              1 full day, yay!!

          • #7
            Everything will keep going like this and get worse if all we get is just another level tower and just another tier of dragons. Everything is getting out of balance, I'm sure at one stage they will realize it?


            • SuavGlav
              SuavGlav commented
              Editing a comment
              It's not that they don't realize what's happening. It's that they just.



          • #8
            Kudos, Panda. You hit the nail on the head. But I don't think you even took it far enough. EggToken Echo

            ON TOP of the very accurate OP, the fact that new towers are introduced at current max levels is a huge problem. The average tower costs 1,160 12 hr timers to get from level 1 to level 50 (this assumes you have done all building time reduction research). Of those 1,160, ~390 (33%) are from building level 46-50. So new fire flaks come out, you spend 1160 12 hr timers on one (if you are lucky enough to have that many). And then can't afford to level up any more towers? Or worse, what if you already have a max base (I know, harder to feel sorry for those guys, but it's an issue)? Now not only are you spending 1,160 for the new tower, you are also having to bench/store a different tower that, yep, you guessed it, cost a minimum of 1,160 12 hr timers to max. So the real cost is 2,320 12 hour timers for 1 new tower.

            So, let's look at the costs of the 4 most recent towers that have been introduced. Tower/12 hr timers 1-50/Special resource.

            Ice Turret/1,160/32,500 Ice Shards
            Spitfire Turret/1,160/32,500 Fire Shards
            Dark Flak/1,161/55,600 Embers
            Fire Flak/1,161/55,600 Embers

            Ice Turret and Dark Flak are both good towers. The jury is still out on Fire Flaks, PG says they are good, but PG also claims Merkt is a good dragon (hint: not only is it not a good dragon, it is by far the worst divine ever released vs cost to obtain at a minimum), so take that with a grain of salt. So that leaves us with the 3rd most recently introduced building, the Spitfire Turret. Let me save any lower level players some heartache. At higher levels, past say, i dunno...40 for sure, they are possibly as useless as ballistas. Definitely one of the 2 worst towers in the game. I know they are good at lower levels, but at some point, you're going to want to stop investing in them.

            That says nothing to the fact that flaks cost 23k more "special resources" which are far harder to get, but this is a rant about timers, so that's for another time.

            So, if PG is planning on releasing level 60 towers, and even if they keep the timer requirements the exact same as level 46-50, that's another 780 12 hour timers per building. Up to 40 attack towers on a base. 780 12 hr timers x 40 = 31,200 12 hour timers needed just to go from 50-60. 40+ years worth of timers.

            This is daunting and maddening for both experienced players and newer players, more of which fall farther behind with each new release.

            So, let's look at the 3 main sources of timers: Monument drops, event prizes, and gold chests.

            Monument drops - still getting 1 and 3 minute timer drops after 2 years. These should change at a minimum of 15 and 30 minute timers at the same rate that the 1 and 3 minute timers currently drop. And for the occasional 30 minute and 1 hour drops, these should change to 3 hour and 12 hour drops, also at the same rate.

            Event prizes - Personal progression: The last fort event had the equivalent of 25 12 hour timers in all prize tiers. Combined. Yep. A third of one tower level (46-50). Yay. This needs to be multiplied by a double digit number.

            Gold chests - The disparity here is big, as Panda said. First of all the drop rate has been greatly affected by introduction of 4 new building materials (Shards, shards, embers, and pearls), as well as xp pots, xp boosts, and whatever other stuff is in there. Secondly, the disparity between legendary drops is big:

            15 x 12 hr clocks = 15 12 hr clocks
            50 x 3 hr clocks = 12.5 12 hr clocks
            whatever x 1 hr clocks - less

            Get rid of whatever the epic and legendary 1 and 3 hour clock drops are, make them as epics (so there are no 1 and 3 hour legendary drops but the epic 3 hr clock drop is x50 and the epic 1 hr clock drop is x150). Make the 12 hr legendary x 45. Why you ask? Glad you did.

            For spenders, egg progression actually is not the speedbump. Clocks are. And it's ok to have a speedbump, but these double-gated, price gouging pixels are too much. If level 50 towers are meant to be paired with emerald dragons, let's look at the costs in eggs. Not counting all the free eggs you get daily from daily payout, wars, missions, etc...just from gold chests.

            Total egg tokens at max spend needed for emerald dragons = 140k tokens x 6 legendaries + 220k tokens x 3 mythics = 1.5M tokens/3k tokens per gold chest legendary drop = 500 drops
            Total 12 hr timers needed assuming max research done for "emerald" towers (levels 46-50) = 390 12 hr timers x 40 towers = 15,600 12 hr timers/15 12 hr timers per legendary drop = 1040 drops.

            So it takes more than double the amount of legendary 12 hr clock drops vs legendary egg token drops to complete a tier. This says nothing of the fact that eggs are more readily available in game on the whole vs timers of any sort or the fact that to hatch each emerald dragon you need another 50+ 12 hr clocks. Each. So, 9 dragons, add another 450+ 12 hr timers in, and now timer cost is 3x token cost.

            It is really out of balance. Other solutions include:
            1)As Panda said, introduction of 24 hr, 48 hr, etc clocks
            2) If research is ever utilized again, there should be an additional 25% timer reduction in there (25% current), so the possibility of a total of 50% timer reduction.
            3) Bounty Harbor timers given should be of the larger variety (12 hr), not minutes

            Looking forward to no reply. Sorry for all the numbers and math and stuff. But come on PG people.
            Last edited by Warchant; 08-15-2017, 11:50 AM.


            • Blah765
              Blah765 commented
              Editing a comment
              Wait the fire turret becomes horribly useless? WTH? At least the ballista was always bad...

              Can you expand on this or is there a post somewhere explaining this?

            • Sabin76
              Sabin76 commented
              Editing a comment
              Personally, I'd be more inclined to go the research route than the other two. Not because I think anyone has any hope of getting to that research, but because the current drops are still good for the lower level players. Bumping the clocks up for everyone (in gold chests, monuments, and the bounty harbor) gives newer players a leg up on the older players.

              Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Some people have been clamoring for a catch-up mechanic for a while and this would certainly be part of one. However, if this is not intended to be a catch-up mechanic, then the increased clocks should be gated by level somehow (hence me thinking #2 was the better of the three options). Any other option that gates by level would be fine too, mind you. I mean, you could simply scale the gold chest drops by level like RSS packs. Extend to monuments/harbor as necessary.

            • GodofNoobz
              GodofNoobz commented
              Editing a comment
              Sabin76 It would be scaled so new players would not be getting the same clock drops as high level players.

              Every game scales so depending on your level your progression is fair. This game has little to no scaling which is why all the complaining is happening. They are about to release lvl 60 towers that take forever to make and the clock drops are the same as when max tower levels were lvl 40. They went up 20 levels but no scaling on clocks to support that growth.

          • #9
            As long as people still pay for it, PG will keep ratcheting up the price. Nothing will be fixed until people hop off the treadmill, because things being "broken" earn PG a hell of a lot of money! Having a max base has always been more expensive than max dragons, it's just that both have scaled up to the point that it's impossible for anyone but the whales to be anywhere close to max dragons, let alone max base. That being said, bigger timers are needed because of how much physical tapping is required.

            My biggest beef is the 12h "are you sure? Y/N" confirmation placed right on top of the pay directly with rubies at a grossly inflated price, which you can accidentally hit and blow thousands of rubies instantly, no confirmation. At least it was that way when I accidentally hit it. I don't know if it's still like that, and don't want to test. I'm always glad to see the 12h gone, because I can turbotap and actually speed time up faster than with the 12h, and without sweating bullets about wasting 7k rubies from a misplaced tap or laggy button press.


            • kenshiki
              kenshiki commented
              Editing a comment
              There is a confirmation when you tap the ruby method of speed ups. It shows "Are you sure you want to spend rubies in order to complete this building" with a No and Yes option to tap. This is longer than the message of "Use 12h boost?" with a No and Yes option to tap.

              You can accidentally use rubies if you rush so much that you didn't read the message about the ruby use or don't want to slowly use those speed ups.

          • #10
            EggToken Echo so...


            • #11


              • #12
                The amount of Clocks and Egg tokens has been way out of whack. It would be nice to see some changes to support the player base instead of running us off!! GJ Panda


                • SuavGlav
                  SuavGlav commented
                  Editing a comment
                  And yet, we'll probably not see any...

              • #13
                You may see the awesome double sigil chest, with an amazing increase of 30% of 12h timers. Which in normal terms means an extra 2-3 12h pr 4-5k rubies. yay


                • Mechengg
                  Mechengg commented
                  Editing a comment
                  What i'm really hoping for is an increase to breeding tokens (similar to embers during fort) but as some PG employee alluded to in another thread there will be a way to gather more sigils during the weekend of this event...

                • Indi123
                  Indi123 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Yep Mechengg - my guess is the new way to get sigils will be a magic trick. Pull your card out of your wallet, type in the numbers, et voila! More sigils!!

                • gaza8143
                  gaza8143 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  @Ini123 Still not as magical as the legions of hackers who goto shady websites and get free rubies , dragon invulnerabilities and free 'instant' tower builds!

              • #14
                I love how a member of a team full of spenders is the one always butt hurt. Tell your stupid team to stop spending so you don't have to make posts like this.

                Its not personal, but you can't be this stupendously ignorant to fact that you guys (Dread) are a big part of the problem. You are the main reason why the game is here.

                How many high 300 and level 400's do you have on the team? How many times did you guys not spend your ways to be #1 in event since your team is in existence? How many months have you been #1 in D1 without spending? Exacly!

                You are a hypocrite Panda
                Last edited by Wings; 08-24-2017, 09:20 PM.


                • #15

                  I think you seriously need to look up the definition of hypocrite. In the future please don't try to use words that are too hard for you ok? I DO think the game costs to much and anyone who knows me knows that is EXACTLY how I feel. I believe that the game should not be about JUST spending but you seem to think simply because our team spends while forgetting the superior tactics, strategies, organization, teamwork, loyalty, chemistry, intelligence and any other long list of qualities that we posses that you and your team don't then...well, there probably is a reason you are where you are.

                  I was talking to PG about increasing costs too much. I would have to be the one in charge of the cost of the game...which I am not. If I was I would charge people with a penalty for lack of intelligence. This would probably make the game far too expensive for you, just saying.

                  So my team and my team alone is the reason? I think it is safe to say looking at most metrics, NoMercyOrder spends more than my team and if you think that one team is the main reason why the app games get to where they are then you probably are both lacking in an understanding of both app game development and basic economics.

                  We do have a number of larger bases on the team but not as many as there are in the game as a whole, nor does the rate of expenditure even pale in comparison to the game as a whole. If you think spending alone allows you to win every event then you probably have a fundamental misunderstanding of how events work, which is probably why you don't win any of them. How many months has ANY team been in D1 or rather any league in this game without spending? Have you spent any money on the game? So your logic is a bit invalid if that is the only criteria.

                  The increase in cost for the game affects everyone in a fairly unilateral manner so I don't see how raging at me or my team somehow makes sense when the overall goal is to decrease the cost of the game for everyone with a focus on gameplay that creates value and enjoyment instead of forced mechanics and driving profit.

                  In fact, the issue probably lies in the fact that PG is moving away from teamwork and focusing MORE on individual spending as a means for success which is why you see so many changes like a ton of large bases showing up overnight (or hackers, which is a separate issue) to team prizes being hugely weak relative to the personal achievements. I could keep going but I am not sure you have the comprehension to understand because you seem to think one team has to power to change the outcome of a game when it is made by a company that has close to $100m dollars/year in revenue.

                  I can understand your sentiment but please, how about letting the adults talk? Thanks Or continue to do so because your rants are amusing, even when they really have little basis other than you trying to make excuses for why you probably cannot succeed at anything.
                  Last edited by Panda; 08-25-2017, 01:38 AM.