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The Great Sapphire wall of PG

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  • The Great Sapphire wall of PG

    For a while now many of the top players have been complaining about the 'Sapphire' and above wall , without doing the maths I thought these guys were just serial whingers but now I have changed my tune, this wall is bigger than the The Great Wall of China, even the Night King in Game of Thrones would turn back.

    Assumptions :
    Very crude estimation per tier based on each tiers end dragon eggs required x # of dragons. Depending on what breeding path you use and what backbreeds you use you will get different results.

    When you see the numbers even if I am out by 100% the wall is still massive.

    If you love playing this game are in Platinum or lower dragons stop reading this post now as you will likely get upset.

    - Average player Joe Bloggs can complete each tier from red to Green each month and then has 150,000 eggs each month to spend on dragons.

    RED ------ 10 Dragons --- 4.1k eggs --- 1 month
    PURPLE--14 Dragons----11.2k eggs -- 1 month
    BLUE ---- 15 Dragons--- 32.5k eggs -- 1 month
    ORANGE - 17 Dragons--8.4k eggs -- 1 month
    GREEN ---- 15 Dragons--130k eggs-- 1 month
    GOLD-------- 12 Dragons -- 240k eggs-- 1.5 months
    PLATINUM- 12 Dragons-- 385k eggs --3.5 months
    SAPPHIRE - 9 Dragons -- 1.8mm eggs-- 1 Year
    GARNET -- 9 Dragons -- 2.0mm eggs -- 1 Year 1 m.
    EMERALD-- 9 Dragons -- 2.0mm eggs -- 1 Year 1 m.
    OBSIDIAN -- no data

    As mentioned the calcs are rough , Orange is a bit distorted due to the good back breeds on the legendaries.

    The jump from Platinum to Sapphire is extreme to say the least. I have been stuck in the Sapphire wall for a good 3 months and it looks like I will be there for another 3 months minimum. Every 3 months a new tier comes out.

    The new tiers have a 1 year mega wall each.

    My view is that this is pretty tough for whales, very difficult for average Joe and a complete turn off for non spenders.

    While Hauset (sapphire drag) can prep a max level base now she wont be able to next building event once tower levels go from 50 to 60.

    My concern is that the cadence is far too high for most players. While Whales can keep up, even they won't play forever if all of their non whale friends retire, all players are actually content for each other.

    I am curious as to what most players think of the current dragon tiers?

    Personally I play games to have fun and be 'current' if someone spends 8k USD and cant even be current that is not much incentive to continue playing.

    I mean 8k is a nice holiday for the family, a second hand car. In this game it means you are irrelevant lol

    I wonder what Whales spending 500 USD to 2k USD a week think about the end game?
    Last edited by gaza8143; 08-13-2017, 06:51 PM.

  • #2
    I think it's a huge reason I'm quitting the game, at least as a fully active player.

    I know now that there's no way I'm going to climb this "massive wall" without spending and so I'm not going to really try. My bases have already been converted to training bases and I will try and check in to keep them alive and upgrading. But I'm done chasing after the dream that you can continue to play this game competitively after hitting Sapphire dragons without spending a ton of money. After two years of grinding away I'm bored and giving up.
    What, me worry?


    • ITIL
      ITIL commented
      Editing a comment
      Share the names of the training bases?

    • CaptainC
      CaptainC commented
      Editing a comment
      xPCaptainCXp and LilCaptainC, team RetirementHome. MuertsBaby is not a training base, just a friend who parked his alt there.

      If you see all the towers stored that means I'm trying to gather lumber to do upgrades to make it more useful for higher levels.

  • #3
    By the look of the leaderboard for Fort even, even the whales couldn't stomach the crappy drops this time. Scores are very low


    • Indi123
      Indi123 commented
      Editing a comment
      Cynics may say the drop in scores correlates with the work carried out by CampusLifer to stop certain cheats which most definitely help in fortification events...

  • #4
    There is one mistake many people keep making and that is the assumption that a game like this has an endgame. It hasn't and it shouldn't, and for that reason PG should be and does need to continue adding dragons, towers and levels. That's not the issue.

    The issue is the time frame that they suddenly jumped everything to. A game should feel achievable, it should be just a little bit out of reach to keep us trying to catch up. They've gone too far ahead and many of us are simply saying 'well I'm stuffed, it's not even worth trying'.

    The fact that this started with the green research wall, then jumped into the sapphire dragon tier and also includes the tower building times.
    It shows that PG hasn't thought about appropriate growth times, just threw a bigger number in one time to make it more costly for whales and now they are stuck in a cycle of making everything take longer, cost more and be further away.

    Vicious cycle which they need to fix very soon or there will be no possible solutions.

    I'm seeing a lot more teamless bases lately, I take that as a sign of more people giving up on the game recently.


    • CaptainC
      CaptainC commented
      Editing a comment
      I agree, a game like this shouldn't have an end game.

      But progress should be consistent and steady. Once you hit the Sapphire tier it grinds to a screeching halt unless you literally spend a butt load of money. If you stop making steady progress, you get bored and sick of trying. That's what leads to people quitting.

      If I constantly grind out as many missions as I can daily I can get a new dragon every 3-4 breeding events, maybe. After a couple of years of getting a new one or two every event this makes me want to sleep in more and say screw the game.

  • #5
    My own personal opinion aligns with CaptainC


    • SilentOne
      SilentOne commented
      Editing a comment
      If you agree with CaptainC you obviously also agree that there is an issue with the way things are working now.
      If your personal opinion aligns with CaptainC what is PG doing to fix the walls we keep talking about?
      What are they doing to smooth the progression from one tier to the next?

      Are you also saying screw the game? lol

    • gaza8143
      gaza8143 commented
      Editing a comment
      SilentOne at least we have one PG member in our camp Hopefully they can help us influence change!

    • SilentOne
      SilentOne commented
      Editing a comment
      lol gaza8143 It's kind of interesting/refreshing to see an employee who has a personal opinion which differs from the obvious direction of the game.

  • #6
    I'm finding it harder to log in and more and more tempting to return to my old friend TV. I have a couple of seasons of shows stored up that I might as well watch. The wall is real. Once you get to my level in the game you realize money and lots of it is the only way to make any progress that will not bore you to tears.

    With the release cadence they have I now falling behind more and more each release with the exponential cost increase and nothing to offset it. I was ok not being being at the top. I'm not cool with making negative progress which is where the game has come to. I used to be able to design a decent base and have fun with that but now my buildings are capped by my drgaons. I don't even have a tower over level 45 and 60s have been announced.

    Pg has made its stand and it is obvious the only people they want to enjoy the game are people who can spend 30k a year on an App. Sadly that's not me. I was content in the past spending $100 here and $100 there for both mine and my wife's accounts but now $100 is like pissing on a 5 alarm fire. Wtf even bother. $100 will buy maybe 1/9 a dragon. $100 will add maybe like 2 levels to my base.

    It just isnt worh it anymore. Honestly I'm just waiting for both my wife and I to be on the same page about leaving at the same time so can close the door on the WD chapter of my life. In the past she had wanted to quit but I wasn't ready. Now I'm ready and just waiting for her moment to come again. It was a lot of fun once upon a time. Sadly now I just log in to talk in LC and run my multis maybe dump a little food or wood if someone needs it. Honestly line chat is easier to use so I have spent more time chatting there.

    in reality, the forums have been more fun than the game lately. Coming in to what shenanigans Shenanigans has been up to or what dumb ideas have been to put out by our favorite forum posters ( jungle creatures and alphabet players) are the highlight of WD for me now.


    • #7
      I have only been playing for about 3 months and I can easily say that I have never seen a community that complains so much about the in game purchases.

      To begin with the value of rubie bags is a huge slap to the face to overvalue the rubies and so they can make the value packs more appealing even tho they are already overpriced to begin with. On top of that once you do buy the rubies you are basically gambling your money in hope of good drops,

      Now don't get me wrong I enjoy the game and I support you guys with the elite account but I don't think i will ever be motivated to buy rubies and if getting through sapphire actually takes one year I don't think ill have the patience for that.


      • Ian
        Ian commented
        Editing a comment
        When I joined last year, it was fun. I bought packs regularly. Near enough every day. For my money, I could do well back then.

        Today, the same amount of donating wouldn't get me far.

        People have been here from when pg took over. They've seen it go from fun and explosive to meh, why is this app still in my device

        Pg don't care. They sugar coat the greed and the sheep in here buy that

        Rumours spread that pg was getting bought out/sold.

        Many hope this is true

    • #8
      CampusLifer the development team 100% believes that sapphire wall and 150K beyond sapphire for dragons is the BEST for the game.

      I'm sorry but the developers have and will replace you. The best way is to enjoy it at your level or move on.

      If you actually want a change spend your money elsewhere. Heck at level 200 elite spending doesnt help so.. stop spending on elite. $100 doesnt go nearly as far it does level 50 or 100 VS 200. Theres a reason cheating is so rampant.

      Do what you need to do to enjoy the game.

      Is PG out of touch? No they know exactly what they are doing and monitor the forums for information. They are not clueless or idiots. They have stated several times and especially campuslifer with her time on the team that YOU WILL be replaced and the team is happy with how players progress.


      • #9
        The best decision is to do as many have and I intend to do which is cut their losses and find something else to do. This is the first, last and only game of this nature I have played. It was pretty fun for a while. I led a diamond team for a couple of years, but I just don't care for the way the game is going. You can flounder around in lower leagues falling further and further behind or spend enough cash to buy a new house if you like, but the "enjoyment" I get in this current game environment just isn't worth it to me anymore.

        I like to feel like I am making progrsss in relation to a goal (moving or not.) Drifting further and further into obscurity isn't my idea of fun. Pg has made it clear that the goal is to move the finish line based on whales and cheaters so they will keep running (aka spending). I'm glad you enjoy the bucket you are in and are happy with the game. Good luck to you. I happen to know a vast many that have come to a realization that they are just a replaceable player that has already been replaced. I looked at my wife's bookmarks this morning and half or better were teamless today. More players getting smart and parting ways .

        This is a game of whales. Pg is never conenet with a steady stream of revenue, every action is designed to milk the players of more and more money while providing less and less value in return. I just don't care to be a part of that anymore so I will dutifully sign in until we can quit together and they can find a sadist to replace me.


        • #10
          I couldn't agree with this post more, this is exactly why my game play has reduced drastically. PG you guys can check as this is my IGN.

          Up intil Sapphire there is fantastic progression balance. I will say that that part of the game is what hooks the player in because so well put together.

          Although once you hit Sapphire it all goes to crap. Progression and balance all goes out the window and pure greed takes over.

          The damn Storage building goes from 14 day build to 40 days lol, wth is up with that? Why not have it go to 16 then 18 then 20 etc, why in the world choose to have it go from 14 days to 40 days? I will never ever understand that move. It's just a huge slap in the face.

          Then add the huge breeding token requirements to breed crap dragons you will never ever use outside of an xp base.

          It jumps up to 125k min per dragon and as high as 200k per dragon, aside 1-2 backbreeds that cost less. You end up breeding dragons that are way less powerful than your divine dragons at the same level, which just means that you will always pick a divine dragon to fly over a dragon you bred.

          Which then has the whole game revolve around divine dragons and the only reason to breed dragons is to unlock the cap so you can level up Divine dragons.

          The excitment of breeding dragons like Kinnara, Amarok, Rizar, Apophet and Haus is gone, all focus has shifted to Divines and other ways to suck money from players.


          • #11
            CampusLifer As long as players realize PG does not care for turning new players as campuslifer states it in a more polite manner; "new players will
            replace you".


            • ITIL
              ITIL commented
              Editing a comment
              While it may not have been sugarcoated enough for some people, that's the harsh reality of things. When there are so many customers, it doesn't make sense to babysit and coddle a few players making a huge deal out of spending on elite/minor spending vs megawhales who just keep spending and don't complain. It makes sense to cut the customers who make a lot of a noise but don't bring in a lot of profit. Outside of that, it'd also make sense to focus on content generating players who make peoples' lives easier and those who hold sway in their communities, though the latter is harder but still possible to gauge.

              This also isn't to excuse them from a number of things lacking clarity, but CL's comment hardly deserves much focus.

          • #12
            Hi Highliter . Please don't take an incorrect phrase in quotes and ascribe them to me. I've definitely never said that. If you search google for that quote, no one has said that on this entire forum ever before:


            I've written a long post about product vision and strategy. Definitely that's a mischaracterization of what I was saying. I think this is what I've written in the past found here


            I honestly have a long view on this because I've been through this many times. Every single major change will have a portion of people who don't like it. There was a point in time that War Dragons was a single player game. You didn't build your own base --- all your did was earn new dragons and defeat a set of increasingly difficult single-player bases like angry-birds puzzles. Later on, when we added the ability to build your own base and attack each other, the a huge number of players at the time was FURIOUS and claimed we had just ruined/killed the game. We believed in what we were doing and continued along the path until we were sure it was an improvement. There were a ton of bumps along the way, and many of players who enjoyed single-player game and hate multiplayer did end up quitting, but the game definitely became better and more people flocked to it. Then we added the ability to chat with other players and join teams. Almost the entire playerbase HATED it and said we ruined the game and they were all gonna quit. We kept working at it until we felt it was good. Along the way, a bunch of people who didn't like social dynamics did quit, but the game grew bigger and better along the way. Then we added the synchronous realtime battle (basically the ability to jump in to battle to assist teammates and defense mode). Everyone was super mad because they thought it was buggy/awful/boring but we kept working at it until most people thought it was good. I'm sure it's one of the major pillars of the game now. Same thing when we added wars, added our first event, etc etc etc. Not every single change along the way has worked out, but I've seen the cycle enough times to believe in our ability to prototype major changes which we believe in, work iteratively in a way where we're gathering player feedback, adjust what we're doing to fix things, keep working towards our vision and end up with something better than where we started. Lots of human beings are uncomfortable with change of any kind -- especially when they have to see the rough edges during the transition period. Almost everyone who has started playing the game since these features were introduced think they're important and unique components of the game and can't imagine War Dragons without these features. It's impossible to build something which makes 100% of people happy, but we're working towards something which the majority of people think is an improvement.


            • Highliter
              Highliter commented
              Editing a comment
              I apologize @ Campuslifer if you felt that I mischaracterised your personal opinion. However, in my own opinion I felt that you made it very clear that losing players and letting the game grow replacing those players to better fit your vision is what you meant? This isnt a challenge but more of a clarification and as a long time player and supporter of the game.

            • Dravoz
              Dravoz commented
              Editing a comment
              How can you write so much and yet not actually address the point? Can you please look at GodofNoobz' comment and try again. Progression balance is the subject, not new content.
              Last edited by Dravoz; 08-17-2017, 02:45 AM.

            • KRAHL80
              KRAHL80 commented
              Editing a comment
              CampusLifer. I have personally commented about this exact comment on several occasions. What you feel is a "mischaracterization," of your words is partially true. However, given the environment in which we issue our comments, complaints, suggestions, and emotional outbursts, do you feel that our misinterpretation of your words is unjustified? You have countless threads filled with thousands of complaints and suggestions, but they are often disregarded.

              I followed several links tonight that you posted. Each of them sent me to yet another complaint thread, which is much older than the similar thread you directed us from. I don't think it matters where those complaints are or how many threads exist; it matters that they exist at all. Countless times, your customer base has asked for your development team to fix errors within the game, improve upon existing components, modify things that are not working well, and simply help us to enjoy a game that we wish to continue playing. We are not getting bored from lack of content, rather, we are bored from the lack of progress.

              At this moment, you're preparing to add a new feature to the game which none of us asked for, yet many have clearly stated they hate (Atlas, based off the beta). Still, the Pocket Gems team is getting ready to stuff it down our throats. Our input CLEARLY has no impact on your decisions. Many of us fully believe that your intention is to improve the game, but the question revolving around it is: Who are you actually improving it for, you or us?

              In your above statement, you made it very transparent that people have quit the game because of changes you made to the game, but in the end, it got better. Well, it certainly didn't get better for those that left. It got better for you-- the people making money off of the game. Now, I have no objection to that, as we all have the inalienable right to earn and support ourselves. However, you are very clearly making decisions that are pushing your clients away and ignoring our suggestions and concerns by adding new elements to the game which are upsetting us further while not addressing other major flaws. When reading your above post, it is a very clear reminder that no one there cares if we leave, as new features will push out some players as new ones arrive. I'm also positive that the increase in spending you get from a small percentage of players will help you launch a broader advertising campaign, which will exponentially increase the traffic of new incoming players, ala Game of War. It's impossible to overlook that your current strategy seems very in-line with the most successful games in existence. I applaud your efforts in improving upon your business, but may I remind you that many, if not most, players in your community left games like that because this was an escape from the pay-to-exist mentality of those games. Make no mistake: we will leave you gradually and your only hope will be finding new whales and chumps to shell out money.

              We don't need you to make 100% of us happy, but you should be shooting for higher than 10%. Frankly, I don't care if you think we took your words out of context and don't like being accused of treating us as replaceable money bags. You have absolutely no argument to prove otherwise. Therefore, I will continue treating your comments as I have in the past and I don't believe anyone should go easy on you or the development team in any manner. You reap what you sow, and what you sow is the seeds of discontent.

          • #13
            Having just hit 160 I seriously doubt I will get much higher. Am at the point where I need to lvl my builder hut but I need 4 sapphire eggs... gimme a blucking break! Am only halfway towards getting my first sapphire dragon, and I still need to get at least four more? PG can take their blue eggs and put 'em where the sun don't shine.


            • Mechengg
              Mechengg commented
              Editing a comment
              160 and no sapphires??

          • #14
            The wall is real. Awesome progress through Platinum, and then you hit Sapphire. I'm starting to see why so many players speed leveling up to around 200 (where you get a LOT more XP per run on your dragons), and stagnate until they can breed Sapphire and up. Even the divines can't help you as to get them up, you have to have bred a Sapphire, Garnet, or Emerald dragon. So it is literally sit and wait or spend a serious pile of cash and pray for good egg token drops from gold chests.......


            • #15
              I wish they would Truly address it, like someone said above, why does upgrading storage go from 14 days to 40 or whatever? How does that make any sense?
              I noticed that level 45+ towers take over a MONTH to finish. how does that get by quality control???
              Breeding is my favorite part of the game, getting new birds, I am also stuck in sapphire, I will graduate to Garnet the next breeding event, but I still don't see myself
              getting the last 2 extra sapphire eggs I need anytime soon. If I can only level my 8 maxed out dragons from 35 up to say 37 after breeding a garnet, I may rage quit.
              My tarand and my sage have been locked at 35 for so long I expect I'll have so many million extra XP I could level them both from 0 to 40 without needing to even hit a base.
              I get things should get tougher as you get higher, but you guys took it way way way too far, it's really not cool for the Vast majority of players.