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In regards to Mega Attacks

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  • In regards to Mega Attacks

    There is a number of points in this game that need discussion, such as energy events in general / gold chests / prize tiers / etc, but for this thread we’d like to please contain the discussion just to Mega Attacks, Valor, and Bonus Meter.

    The following post was written by one of the developers who worked on the Mega Attack feature, and should give some insight into the thought process behind it.

    Hi everyone,

    I want to take some time to address Mega Attack. All the players on this forum who have crunched the numbers for the Mega Attack are right. If you compare regular attacks versus Mega Attacks, a player can get more points for spending each energy on regular attacks. This an undeniable fact.


    The benefit of Mega Attack is that it allows you to be really competitive in the event even if you do not have a lot of time to play. Our focus was to create an option for players that were willing to make a trade-off between time and points per energy.


    This table looks at the amount of points you can get if you had 100 Energy and 20 Inner Fires (assuming 100 base points)
    Attack Type # of Attacks Attack Points Inner Fire Points Total Points
    Regular 25 100 2000 4500
    Super 5 400 1500 (Can only use 15 Inner Fires in 5 attacks) 3500
    Mega 1 3000 0 3000
    As you can see, Mega Attacks can only get you ⅔ of the points if you spent those Inner Fires and energy doing normal attacks.


    What this table doesn’t show, and what other forum posts do not show is how Mega Attacks can save you a significant amount of time and let you play the game exactly how you want to play.


    If you take 3 minutes to do one event attack, it would take you 75 minutes to do 25 attacks. If you do 1 Mega Attack, it only takes you 3 minutes (for the same amount of energy spent). This is the biggest benefit of Mega Attacks. The ability to earn points in the event without always needed 75 minutes straight to do attacks.


    The time you save is exactly the reason we reduced the points you can get from a Mega Attack. If we made Mega Attacks equal or similar to regular attacks (from an energy/Inner Fire cost), then it would be very biased towards people who can afford to buy multiple mega coins. Mega Attacks are purely optional. This is just another way for player to balance how they would like to play the game.


    Mega Attack Strategy

    There are also some concerns about how Mega Attack can come in at the last minute and steal points from an opposing team. However, if a Mega Attack can come in at the last minute and steal points from your team, you can do the exact same to another team. Mega attack is a new tactic, and it is important to remember that this tactic is available to all.

    For every new offensive tactic, there is an organic creation of a defense tactic. For example, if the overall tactic becomes to only launch Mega Attacks at the end of the event, it might be necessary to defend against potential Mega Attacks. Maybe in order to win flags, teams now need a larger buffer than just 1000 points if they really want to win a flag. Maybe saving energy packs and Inner Fires to launch a counter Mega Attack at the last minute to thwart someone else becomes the new strategy. We believe it should take some time for new strategies to develop, and we will take action if it really upsets the overall balance of the event.

    Bonus Meter & Valor Removal

    Removing Bonus Meter and Valor reduces the points you can get via a normal attack in an event. That is true. However, as some players know well, more points does not always mean more rewards, as the progression prizes thresholds can shift. As a result, the main impact of Bonus Meter was rewarding gameplay that was all at one time. This is against our ideal of being able to play and compete on a flexible schedule, instead of being chained to your device to attack repeatedly to build up a Bonus Meter, or to build up a lot of energy over the course of multiple rounds and then attack with Bonus Meter in just one go for individual progression prizes.

    Another reason behind the removal of Valor and Bonus Meter is the increasingly complicated calculations and event items that goes into scoring points in Capture the Flag. We were constantly answering questions about how Bonus Meter would interact with Super Attack, or how Bonus Meter worked on Inner Fires, etc. We believe making the event more straightforward to play and not require multiple calculations is a better experience for all players. Another reason behind removing Valor is to remove the event item from chest drops. One of the most common topics of feedback for War Dragons relates to our armory, and how players value some items more than others. The overwhelming sentiment is that some of our major event items are simply not attractive/useful, so removing Valor from the armory and the Capture the Flag event is one step towards addressing those complaints.
    Last edited by Dragon Punch; 08-07-2017, 05:07 PM.

  • #2
    You are asking us to only address Mega Attacks, but talk about the Valors and everything else, so I will touch on them as well.

    Mega Attacks. They are fine for what they are and I understand their intended purpose. However, I believe there should be a time limit on how often a Mega Attack can be used by a team on the same Enemy team. Otherwise, you are literally only rewarding big spenders or hoarders of energy and inner Fires. You might as well make the rounds last 15 minutes instead of 6 hours because you have made only the last 5-15 minutes count.

    Bonus Meter Removal. Ok, so you want to encourage players to NOT play your game? That makes absolutely NO sense. Possibly making the bonus % smaller would be better, but completely removing it?

    Great Valor removal. Ok, got it, getting rid of armory clogging items.

    Baby Valor removal. Ok, got it. Where are the replacement items for players who had lots of them?

    And lastly, points. The points for this event were abysmal. I really really really, can I say really one more time?, really think either the maximum points for the top player on the team need to be significantly increased OR the personal reward thresholds need to decreased significantly.

    Thanks for the explanations, much appreciated.

    Edited to add that I really really appreciate the developer taking time out of his/her busy schedule to address Mega Attacks!
    Last edited by MrJonesy; 08-07-2017, 03:19 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think the megas were a nice touch and as the developer said, adds a bit more strategy to the game. Will we be seeing them in gold chests and in other events?

      I'm a big fan of the removal of the bonus meter and valor's; just need to echo the concerns of the community as to where the 10% valors went and if they have been removed from our inventories, when will we being seeing compensation for said removal?

      Lastly, the point system. Extremely disappointed in not only the initial colosal failure to accurately adjust the points for the bonus and valor removal, but also at pg's REFUSAL to correct the prizes during the duration of the event.

      I would like to address this last point in more detail, however, I respect this topic thread and will only touch on the points as in detail as the developer did, so the sooner the point system post is created, the better.

      Comment


      • Chromat1
        Chromat1 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes yes ever one understands Megas.... But the point they refuse to conced is: We all got royaly shafted in the prize scoring! I normaly get near twice what i did for the amount of rss spent. This is the only topic that matters!
        Last edited by Chromat1; 08-07-2017, 03:57 PM.

    • #4
      I would like to see Megacoins in gold chests too. After all, Great Valors were obtainable in gold chests. I used several mega coins and I really like the addition of these and the simplification of inventory items. I never liked the bonus meter.
      ZenWarriors - always looking for active players

      Comment


      • MrJonesy
        MrJonesy commented
        Editing a comment
        I think adding them to gold chests would be great, but that would mean they may start making an appearance in other PVP events as well?
        Not against that at ALL, so long as the points and/or reward thresholds are adjusted accordingly.

    • #5
      I liked the changes for the reasons stated by Dragon Punch.

      As a note my non spender friends were heartbroken by this event mainly because they saw the loss of 100% to 150% in points ( valor and BM ) and only a 25% points reduction in tiers.

      Make the tiers cheaper and everyone is happy!

      Comment


      • Lutrus
        Lutrus commented
        Editing a comment
        It really is that simple.

      • CokeKane311
        CokeKane311 commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes that would make everyone happy BUT PLEASE do not lower the value of the prizes if it costs less points to each them..

    • #6
      Agree with all of the above, and actually like the idea of not having to be tethered to my device for 5 days. One of the biggest complaints from a gameplay perspective is the inability of teams to strategize against big spenders to achieve victory as a team. Maybe a 1hr or 3hr cooldown timer on mega coins would help to balance the scales?

      Comment


      • #7
        I honestly don't see much strategy in adding the mega attack to the event? It just adds more volatility and basically allows big spenders to invalidate an entire rounds' worth of teamwork and effort in a few minutes. I assume anyone with a lick of sense will only pick bases they can easily get 70% on using 3 dragons with 2 defenders so not so sure defend at the end is really a viable counter to it. I don't mind the trade off of points for convenience aspect but having megas in this event in particular seems like an effort to make using them the only way to be competitive in upper leagues.

        And since you touched on it, I was a bonus meter hater since it forced very artificial lengthy play sessions to get decent points. But what this quoted person fails to grapple with is if you reduce points per attack by like 150% and only ratchet down points needed to achieve prize tiers by 40-50%, it will be very, very difficult to get decent points for 99% of players. No one at PG has responded to this specific point, which is fairly elementary math and contributed to most of the displeasure this event generated.

        Comment


        • Owlrager
          Owlrager commented
          Editing a comment
          This ^^^

        • Indi123
          Indi123 commented
          Editing a comment
          Amen.

      • #8
        Event points, thresholds, event prizes, and energy / time / effort to attain said points is something we're going to address in another post. It's a huge, huge discussion, so it's going to take us some time to put a post together.

        Comment


        • Dravoz
          Dravoz commented
          Editing a comment
          I'll be posting about me quitting the game within the next few days, so I'm only moderately interested now. But, I'm sure lots of people will be eager to hear what you have to say.

        • Sam DragonLover
          Sam DragonLover commented
          Editing a comment
          How long is "some time"?

          It's been well over a month.

          I know there's a lot going on, but a timeline would help.

          Thanks PGJared

        • Dravoz
          Dravoz commented
          Editing a comment
          Funny. Must have realised that putting a positive spin on all this is kind of hard.

      • #9
        Thanks Jared, It's a complex issue. I look forward to hearing your point of view.

        Comment


        • #10
          Can u please tell me on how more points doesn't equal more rewards? Seems to me if I scored 228k and didn't make the 229k prize I would have less reward.... so confused with that comment. Why not say we are going to make it impossible for a free player to max event with time and effort put into game?

          Comment


          • Kittens
            Kittens commented
            Editing a comment
            It has already been impossible to max events without paying, except in extremely rare cases, or if you were to save months worth of event items and dump them all into one event (with less reward than the overall prizes you would sacrifice to do that).

        • #11
          Where is the thread where we can discuss the motivating factor in this also being greed to try and ramp up consumption of items? I didn't see that one.

          Comment


          • #12
            Dragon Punch .. even if I do or do not agree in the concept of mega attacks, this is the kind of post that is often missing when releasing a new feature.
            Let the guys who developed the ideas write an article about it, why was it developed, what were the thoughts behind it etc.
            It takes the develop/designer maybe 20-30min and I am sure it would save you a lot more in the other end, by not having to answer the same questions over and over again.

            Comment


            • PGJared
              PGJared commented
              Editing a comment
              It's a bit more than 20 minutes, since it's almost never one person who designs a feature and big posts like this have to go through approvals before being posted.

            • Sandberg74
              Sandberg74 commented
              Editing a comment
              Even if you spend 1 day on a post, it would still save you time on the support side.

          • #13
            PGJared Dragon Punch

            Hey guys.

            I want tell you something what is bothering most people in the game, and why our half team for example didnt even play really this event in saphir I .
            The bonusmeter and the valor items wasnt before inside this game system too...

            When they wasnt implemented inside this Tug of War system the points which was need for "sigils" or for good prizes was very deep compared to this one.
            In last topic i told you too... that in old time before that bonusmeter and valor was.... The 450 sigils was a time arround 27k... later 32-34k points getable...

            That means if you was able to play until that , with innerfire and 100 energy each 10 pack, later 19 and so on... you was able to get at totall until that 1750 sigils!!! Just 1 more sigil prize was over this one... and that was the 500 sigil prize.
            After time you people took the line even higher, maybe it wasnt your intention that people can get that prizes arround that points. Even that was a hard step and need activity!
            So the points for 450 sigils got up over 40k ....

            I complained myself and Joseph put it back down to 34k. As you see that days we was very on edge of playing and wasnt even happy that we was forced that hard.
            Later when "bonusmeter" and valors was added it was for you PG the reason to take the prizetier more and more up.
            I am not sure if one of this items , for example valor was inside the 34k pointmark that day... if it was this situation of ours was even worse.

            Now today when you took that bonusmeter and valor again away... you should drop the pointtiers down too....i mean the bonuses with which you probably increased to 34k to 40k to 50k that days... and lately arround 60k arent anymore....
            Beside that we people know that you PG probably did it that people spend more inside the game to get stuff from goldchests....

            But actually its truelly unbalanced... You know what is unbalanced ???
            - We people have no chance to win good prizes how it was last time... you have to drop down the tier rapidly... even people who invested a lot of innerfires wasnt even near good prizes.
            - The high spenders who got near million points have a too big advantage at all... the progression should not allow a that huge difference between people...

            And it cant be that this Mega attack is used to hold that max ranking with 28 prizes at 229k points.... As you calculated what a ordinary guy needs to play for 100 energy down in minutes, and what he get at least, you should now that in that round the 2nd or 3rd 100 energy costs much more packs...

            Nobody can spend that much packs to be near good prizes... just calculated even if he play daily with 200-300 energy... that will take 30 packs at minimum... if its in same round arround 39-49 packs ... and for how much points then ? For arround 8000-9000 points ? That is damn away from good prizes...

            And if you make that much points daily... you will be really sick and loose health... but not even get good points... while big spenders dont need to care and finish much over that max tier...

            Summarized.....:
            - Pointtier is too high after you took out items which allow more points for max effort... mostly arround 2,5x more. So you have to decrease it... In "Tug of war- new system" topic i told you "before" event and even during to divide it with 2 at least.... You didnt listen.
            - Megacoin shouldnt be allowed to often.... it destroys balance over global rank as game itself.... Dont try to explain that a guy just have "3 minutes" ... that guys can use 5 superattacks too, and get still more...
            - You should know that if a "reattack" for 1,3,5 energy after a ordinary attack isnt possible, a different big advantage to safe time isnt there. People as me, and most of my team dont enjoy this event... What people want is fair prizes, and not to play all the day long....

            If you want that its going to be more competitive arround global rank or teamrank, then maybe you should add some greater prize inside them ?
            - Or add a "best of team" prize , like top 3.... best player of team ABC in saphire league get this and this prize as a additional prize... like 1st 10 goldchests, 2nd 5 goldchests, 3rd 3 goldchests, and some token and sigils...

            - You even can give a "start pack" for all players before the event starts... Like 4 energy packs and 6 innerfire and 2 goldchests or something... so people will be "happy" and "thankful"
            ... people will have a greater moral and be on it, instead of "away from it"...

            I mean i told you in the general discussion area to make atleast a "compensation pack" after that horrible tier, and i was not trolling dear friends...
            If you would do something as that, knowing all the facts i told you beside... you would win some more hearts believe me.


            If something isnt clear, i would like to discuss about, or explain it.
            I hope you firstly understood how the prizetier first time was without that boosts and advantages , and how it is now... for similar prizes... so that you can correct it greatly!
            Last edited by EmrahT; 08-08-2017, 08:13 AM.

            Comment


            • #14
              So what about our 10% or 25% Valors (which ever percentage they were)? Is this consumable just going to be removed without any type of compensation? Will it go the place of the miracles and any money/time/effort spent to obtain them will all be lost?

              Comment


              • Forrestt
                Forrestt commented
                Editing a comment
                Yes. No word on PG that they will compensate, so it is most likely that they won't.

              • Sam DragonLover
                Sam DragonLover commented
                Editing a comment
                The answer one of our members got is that they were a 'gift' and that in any event they weren't actually removed from our inventory so no compensation is warranted.

                To me, if they cannot be used in an event then they are de facto gone, and compensation is indeed warranted.

                Nothing is a 'gift'. It is part of the structure of the game. We get them from chests and iirc also from individual rewards, so they were included at the cost of something else having been included.

                So as they were obtained at the cost of not getting something else, and now are removed/made inoperable, we should get something else ... something of value (e.g., not tower attack or defence items, but something that increases our ability to gain event points and personal rewards).

                PG I want to believe that you want to treat all players fairly, and I know you know that having a high and happy player base is a key success factor for you, so please fix this.

                Thanks

              • SuavGlav
                SuavGlav commented
                Editing a comment
                If the valors were 'gifts' then why did they feel it necessary to account for the great valors? weren't they 'gifts' as well by that logic?

                Inconsistent garbage.

            • #15
              Mega Attacks to Expensive, Bonus meter needs to be added back if the price of Mega attacks stays cause it's to expensive for the non spenders to try to accumulate points without the Bonus an simply unfair to the players who can't afford to pay big bucks.

              Comment

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