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Toxicity of the forums

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  • Toxicity of the forums

    PGJaredCampusLiferEggToken I'm sure everyone here has seen how toxic the comments have been here, especially in the last year or so. Have the admins not been curious as to way this is? I'm sure most of us that have been here for a while know way this is, but do the admins? Do the higher ups know about this, care about this or have no idea about this? Does this worry anyone from PG or do y'all just shrug it of because you consider us a minority?

    Myself andim surs sues many of us would really like to know the answers to these questions. As things stand right now, everyone I talk to feels like there is a total disconnect between the players and PG.

    Everyone I know loves this game and wants to see it prosper, but from most long time player's standpoint, that's not happening.

  • #2
    Oh, it's definitely something we are aware of and think about. Does it worry me? Yeah, absolutely.


    • Panda
      Panda commented
      Editing a comment
      I feel like the worry isn't the thing people are looking for lol, are things going to change? Probably not.

    • Goober
      Goober commented
      Editing a comment
      Panda cheers to wishful thinking. 🍻

    • KRAHL80
      KRAHL80 commented
      Editing a comment
      If you think about it and worry.... Why don't you do something about it? Every step you take is a blatant effort to alienate your users further. Personally, I rarely bothered with the forum until the game got noticably worse and now I'm here brooding daily.

  • #3
    People here just want to be treat fair. Personally i guess we all know that you all here are nice people... and i guess beside work with the most of the people here you could drink easily a cup of coffee, or have fun beside gaming....

    What i really dont like and where i feel that you let us just alone is when it is up to some issues in game.... where player would get something....

    Just look... when you said for balance, for correct work, we change this and this.... change prizes and requirement of fire/ice turret....increase prizetiers because there are players who like to make even more points... but on the other hand... when something isnt against the players here ... when it its for there favor... you people think about the money you could loose... so when its up to take from players, thats not the matter, but on the other hand its going to be...

    Over month, over years you increased the point tier of events... breeding was going up and up... you even add new prizes on it... But instead of making it like a "bonus" ,... you stretched the great runes, great chests just on this upper state.... and let us win less and less....

    I dont want talk about many issues here.. but there are many.....................
    PGJared once you came here new with eggtoken.... we people thought , and you let us feel... well someone is interested in treat customers fair... and in your facebook videos with pixxel there was steps for it.... but time after time it didnt happened.

    When we asked for changes in our favor and there are wishes from 2016 still, they never are going to be.... and i dont speak about bugs or that stuff... easy tasks...

    Just let me give a example.... a producer of some milky drinks once changed there bottles and reduced the content.... but the price stand same... On a question from media they explained themself with, that from a poll there customers wanted something more handy, and so they changed the bottledesign...

    You see thats how people here , or i feel really... all understand that you have to gain and make commercial with nice 100 dollar chests and new things as happened many times...
    But when this is,... do something for our favor too... really...

    I often wrote about and quoted you in dear Jared... But often you people are quite about this topic.... so that i get the idea that it makes you sad too in a point, because you arent able to change this... am i wrong ?
    Last edited by EmrahT; 07-27-2017, 01:02 PM.


    • #4
      I guess we just love the game and don't want it to go down the pan. Which is generally what happens when games companies start to pander to only the highest of high spenders. Without smaller players, there is nobody to grow and replace them, no community (which IMO is the main reason people stick around in a game) and eventually the game dies as people stop caring and stop feeling invested.

      I've seen it happen on other games I've played. It went from a fortnightly event to a weekly event. The events became longer. The only new content became ever more expensive chests, armours, and items to craft those armours with. By the time I left they were offering a 9999 gem chest in which you weren't guaranteed anything good. A £100 pack was 800 gems. When I saw the 10000 ruby rune chest in War Dragons, I balked - the similiarites between that game and where this game are heading are worrying.

      As a community I do think we complain a lot. PG does get a hard time and it isn't always justified. But there does seem to be sometimes an overriding attitude of 'we know best and we don't care what you all think' (see World Map Beta feedback and the user of elemental embers for the new fire towers - a galling money grab if I ever saw one).

      I think they should start worrying more when we DON'T complain as that means we don't care anymore, or have gone en masse to another game like we did to War Dragons, from the one I mentioned above.


      • #5
        It would be a good thing to show some kind of "oh yes we understand, we care, we know what you are talking about". Like increase egg token payouts or a least let them drop at a higher rate and amount in gold chests. Once for all remove this f*** tower boosts from chests in a breeding event! Nobody wants them there anyway. Things that are not even a big challenge in implementing. Payout more timers in event prizes. Stuff like that. Players like me don't ask for everything free - fine you want and you need to earn a living. But we have a clear sense when things start to be a ripp-off like the rune chest. And even if we think it is fair to spend, we certainly do not like being ripped-off.


        • #6
          Like everyone says, the feeling (and reality) is that PG, who have released a game we all enjoy, is primarily interested in squeezing its players out of more and more money. We understand PG are not a charity, but there ought to at least be a feeling of give and take with the community (like the price to fully evolve Ember, increasing the cost of chests doling out double the chance of sigils, the high cost for the rune chests, increasing the sigil costs for seasonal dragons, decreased payouts, the constant mind boggling bugs, etc). The perception is one of overwhelming take. At least try to appear more generous.


          • Goober
            Goober commented
            Editing a comment
            I think we are passed that point. The game needs to be fixed before it really starts falling apart. It's already on the brink of crashing and burning.

          • Dravoz
            Dravoz commented
            Editing a comment
            I agree Goober. I, for one, won't be spending another dime on this game.

        • #7
          I feel like replying to this thread needs a book or nothing, but I'm no writer... so

          I'll drop this simple thought here. I've said for a long time that PG needs to stop going for the high dollar instant money and build a more stable long term profit model. Sure the money flow will slow down but the long term profits if done correctly should be much higher and sustainable for a longer time.

          The game as it is currently isn't nearly as much fun as when I started playing a couple of years ago. I stay because I'm invested in time, a little money, and my friends I've made. And that is the key to and heart of this game. More than any other game I have ever played I've made friends here that I would miss a lot if I left. Keep that in mind PG and never mess that part of the game up.
          What, me worry?


          • #8
            At the risk of this being buried in a thread and not be seen or replied to by admins, I'm going to put some honest thoughts and try to stay as constructive as possible. This is in response to PGJared who says the toxicity concerns him, but yet offers up no actionable resolution period, let alone one that seems to work for both PG and the players.

            A couple ground rules for this post.

            1) I fully acknowledge that PG is a business and not only needs to make money, should make money. And I'm pretty certain they do.
            2) I also fully acknowledge that spending is optional in the game, but in the same thought am kind of tired of the response of admin that the game can be enjoyed without it. Sure, it can, if you like to watch pretty or scary dragons fly around and don't have any real personal goals set for the game, but if you want to be competitive, in any sense of the word, this game is the minimal equivalent of a car payment a month. To be in the top 5%, it's more than that.
            3) I also fully acknowledge that no player, paying or free, has the "right" to all of new content at any particular pace they aren't willing to commit, whether that be time, money, or both.

            So, let's address the big concern of the week first, the (again) too fast release of another tier of dragons. It was 1 month/breeding cycle too quick for a couple of reasons aside from the just plain "too soon" argument (which is valid as well).

            1) As recent tiers have been released (since sapphire) with at least some, if not all of the mythics being released much later than the legendaries, the mythics show up as supposedly the top tier dragons in the game, at an absurd egg token cost, but for the most part we come to find out they are generally underwhelming. Put that fact aside, and you are left with very short shelf-life dragons (Emerald mythics available 2 months before Obsidian tier released) that must be spent on anyway because they are mandatory to breed the next tier. So, they come out and even if they are excellent dragons, they are quickly blown out of the water (by design) of the next tier. There is only 1 mythic dragon that has truly stood the test of time over future tiers, and that is Hauheset. His companion mythics were basically irrelevant at release, and neither is (arguably) the best warrior or sorcerer in the tier. So, even if they are the best in the tier (which they should be, relative to their cost), after breeding, training and feeding them (say it takes 2-4 weeks with effort or xp pots), you maybe enjoy them as top tier for a month. Then, 90% of the time, they become completely irrelevant except as breeders.

            2) The tier doesn't coincide with the summer season at all. Take point 1, and add 5 more emerald mythics to it this time, 4 emerald mythics that cost a lot of money. And with a month plus left in the season, all 4 of those dragons, which you are still asking us to spend money on, are now made irrelevant. Sure, technically not for 2 more weeks when fortification event happens and tower levels are inevitably raised, but there will be a huge brick wall there at the top of the game.

            3) I didn't see anyone, ANYONE asking for a new tier yet. So that leaves only a couple possibilities...
            A) You guys aren't making enough money or are trying to squeeze every penny out of every player as fast as possible. This wreaks of a short term without a long term plan. Because players will at some point, stop being able to/wanting to drop the cash. This game can go on for a long time with good/high revenue or a short while with huge profits. I'm guessing you all have made that call.
            B) We can take you at your word, and assume that your tier releases are at least in part driven by player data of who has what from previous tiers, etc, etc. I tend to think this isn't the case but I'll humor you a little. The issue here is that that data, if it exists, is being influenced by, if not driven by hackers. We see new big accounts banned every day. Big accounts with all the dragons, with max bases, etc. I'm not condoning that behavior in the least, but it is affecting all of the honest players negatively in so many ways, apparently including tier release schedule.

            Solution: Slow down. 2 tiers of dragons a year. Not 3, not 2.5. 2.

            Next issue: Base building

            1) For a long time, it seems like egg tokens are the pay wall, and they are...but I have come to the realization that the real speed bump in the game is clocks (honorable mention to specialty building materials like embers/pearls). And the effect only multiplies with every new tier/tower level release. To build a level 50 tower (I used Archer for my numbers), from scratch to the current max of 50, assuming (huge assumption, but best case scenario) you have done all building timer reduction research, it costs 1,160 12 hour timers. 33% of which (390) are from tower level 46-50.
            In my case, I am 8 max towers shy of a MAX short base (all but the first long island). Those 8 towers are at level 45. In order to max them, I need 8*390=3,120 12 Hr. timers. Yikes. But now we have reached a point where I am watching mid level Obsidian dragons solo MAX long bases. Which I am light years away from/will never, ever get. And I'm fine with that, have to be. But the realization that tower power will have to increase exponentially to compete with max Obsidian dragons makes me think why even try? Because I'm at least 2 build events away from building any tower level over 50, and I realize I'm in the top x% of the game! How does that make any mid-level spender feel? It kinda makes me sick. Because I feel like I'm insane for pouring the amount of money into this game that I have. But that's on me.

            Solution: Tower build times need to be re-evaluated, probably starting at level 35, but definitely at 41, and by level 50 they should have a 30+% reduction

            Next issue: Gold Chests

            1) The above might not be such an issue if gold chests weren't so diluted by so many currencies - new introductions like pearls, embers, shards, and sigils have diminished the things that really keep players motivated in the game. Those things are egg tokens and clocks. The fact that dragon boosts are still there, at a high rate at least, is terrible. The fact that ice and fire shards are in at such a high rate is terrible for the higher level player/mid-heavy spenders. I know there are still people that want them, but at high levels, Fire Turrets are possibly the second or third worst tower to have on your base in the game behind ballistas, obviously and right around trebuchets. There is a cap to how many fire and ice turrets a player can build, even if they were insane and built 6 of each, that would currently total 32,500 shards per tower type *6 towers = 195,000 shards of each type. Take away the fact that I have 4 ice and 2 fire towers built and I still have 350K+ extra shards of each type. Nearly double the absolute max. You had an easy out to use them for fire and ice flak cannons but instead went with the more profitable solution of using embers. Ok, I get that, but I'm tired of paying 4K rubies for 10 gold chests, getting 3/3 legendary drops as shards. They are at a very high rate, especially the legendaries, and are the equivalent of opening a gold chest and just getting a graphic of a giant middle finger.

            2) It's insulting that it has been said for 6 months now that gold chest content/rates would be evaluated. I don't think it has. If anything, it's gotten worse.

            3) Some numbers just don't make sense. I think we have settled in at 3K egg tokens for a legendary drop. From Sapphire on up, a mystic egg is, for round numbers sake, the equivalent of 200 egg tokens. A legendary mystic egg drop is 8 of them Or 1600 tokens. Math is hard. Give me the tokens every time.

            Solution: Eliminate/reduce the % of boosts in gold chests, cap the amount of shards allowed or allow a mass trade in for the equivalent of 1000 shards = 1 gold chest or both and reduce the % of them dropping. Replace that % into timers. Increase legendary mystic egg quantity from 8 to 15.

            Edit: Next Issue: Events

            1) Events in general are stale - they are all the same thing and the repetition needed (and time investment) to top tier them is above and beyond. Find a way to make Super Attacks really work. for the players. I mean 500 inner fires, + x00 energy chests + the food to feed every dragon flying in events is enough, but the 10-12 hours needed to top tier them gets old.

            2) The Assault mini event was so much better in its first iteration than its second. It's pretty much a pass in it's current form, as the skill factor was removed...err replaced with a grind/money factor.

            3) The dragon training event is a farce. It has nothing to do with food, all about XP transfers. So straight up rubies. Nothing to do with opening gold chests, so little to no sigil progression that week. If you insist on keeping that as an event, make it into a 48 hour mini event like Assault and call it a day. The prize tiers of the last iteration were waaaay out of whack. The return was very, very low. And it discourages regular gameplay as well. Tone down the moneygrab on it at the very least, please.

            I could keep going but this is already very long and most will likely skip over anyway. Anyway, feel free to comment and PG feel free to put any of this on your roadmap. I know lots of people play differently, and all of this doesn't necessarily apply to them, but I think what I have proposed would benefit everyone, including PG in the long run. If PG truly cares about doing right by their customers as much as their investors, these things should be considered and action taken, sooner rather than later.

            Sorry for the long read, thanks for reading if you did.

            Peace, Prime
            Last edited by Warchant; 07-28-2017, 02:10 PM.


            • KRAHL80
              KRAHL80 commented
              Editing a comment
              Even though I have a few minor disagreements with this post, I have to support it 100%. I'm simply not yet at the level where every point applies to me. Regardless of my feelings and how many other people support it, my biggest fear is that this is another intelligent and fair post that will be ignored like the rest.

            • Warchant
              Warchant commented
              Editing a comment
              Truth be told, I really thought after the effort put into this post, I'd get at least a 5-10 word response from admin like "we're looking into it" or "we're forming a committee" or "Magic 8-ball says "No"". Guess not. The fact that you aren't engaging in discussion with legitimate concerns (there have been several excellent posts this week), is as disturbing as your original actions (or lack of). Good luck long-term, guys.
              Last edited by Warchant; 08-02-2017, 05:50 AM.

            • Goober
              Goober commented
              Editing a comment
              That's because the magic 8 ball keeps saying "try again later" 😂

          • #9
            I think some of their decisions are based on financial wants/needs. They are either trying to keep the light on, or trying to beef up their margins ahead of their October end of fiscal year.

            Others, like their refusal to remove runes for some players, while doing it for others, have no basis and give good reason for frustration and acrimony.


            • #10
              I have enjoyed reading the posts above, and I agree with many of the things said. I have spent money in the game, but like all of us the budget is limited. I live in Australia so what in the US is a $100 value pack cost me $ 159.99. The exchange rate has moved recently, but PG says the prices are controlled by Apple.
              that being said I am a level 230 player in Diamond ll , and the game has become less fun. Now down to one dragon per breed event if I'm lucky and about 2 big builds per fortification event. I settle for about one dragon per season and hope I make the right choice. Hardly any dragons to work on levelling.
              I see many players in the 200 to 250 range go inactive and so I suppose they have left the game because of the slow progress I am experiencing.
              So I can see my time in the game coming to an end soon as the game just becomes a big grind for little progress.


              • Goober
                Goober commented
                Editing a comment
                You're not the only one. Between slower progress and the war system, that really hurt wars more than helped, I'm not even half as active as I used to be. It's really no fun doing nothing but xp runs 90% of the time and nothing else. If things don't change soon, and I mean really soon, I doubt I'll be playing for much longer myself.

              • SilentOne
                SilentOne commented
                Editing a comment
                I'm currently levelling dragons purely for the purpose of having something to feed. Once they have all the XP stockpiled that they need I don't need to fly regularly for any reason.

                Once an hour for a small token payout, is hardly a draw card to keep me returning. I'm at the one dragon bred every 2-3 breeding events stage.

                No idea why PG could possibly think this is a good state for the game to be in.

              • Dravoz
                Dravoz commented
                Editing a comment
                Level 257 here, and am totally disillusioned with the game. The pace is painfully slow, and there's little fun to be had now. I was moderate spender, but that simply doesn't cut it now. A $100 'value pack' provides very little actual value now, meaning I now refuse to spend. That leaves me, for all intents and purposes, stuck at late Sapphire-early garnet, with no hope of advancing further. I've invested a lot of time and money into this game, and have some great in-game friends. Sunk investment and the social aspect is the only thing keeping me from walking. It really shouldn't be this way.

            • #11
              What it comes down to:

              1: Chests are worse than they've ever been, and steadily getting worse. Sure, it's the gambling model, but instead of jackpot/loss kind of gambling, it's useless (0 value boosts) vs normal drop that gives some amount of nonzero value, with the chance of zero value increasing, and the "jackpot" amount also going down. Sigils are reduced as part of this dilution, while sigil costs of the divines have increased, and despite promises of more sigils to compensate, that hasn't happened. Sure, the mini blackbloods have been run, but those extra sigils are offset by worse chests and higher prize tiers for the same sigils, so we end up worse off than before. Restoring chests to their former glory would be a good first step. I'm not asking for mega good stuff, just how good they used to be.

              2: Breeding paths are inflexible, sapphire and on. Let's say you're a miniwhale (Nobody else is close enough to obsidian tier for it to even be on their radar) that can get one obsidian dragon. Which one do you pick? You don't know the combos past it, because the dragons aren't out. What I mean by inflexible, is you could pick one dragon that is incapable of breeding the mythic you want. If you get 2, you're likely to have a pair that doesn't even create a mythic, and you'll only find out you've wasted egg tokens after more dragons come out. All combinations of legendaries should give one mythic. That way, the worst case scenario is you breed 2 dragons early and get a mythic you don't want, but you've still advanced in tiers and can correct the path next time you breed dragons. Not that you've completely wasted 140k+ tokens, or you're locked into a path through multiple tiers, because of a guess you had to make with no information.

              3: It's impossible to keep up, because of the "breed only one" mentality of sapphire on, along with its inflexibility and reduced backbreeds. The only reason 2/3 of diamond league isn't already interchangeable with lv 1 players is Hauheset, because no other dragon dents a base of towers designed for dragons 2-3 tiers higher.

              4: Don't arbitrarily change the rules midstream, especially without announcement. This goes for runes and breeding paths, but also anything else that arbitrarily changes to disadvantage the player, like primarch healing and stupid nest restrictions for anyone playing boats. Runes would have gone over better if they were compensated *at* *the* *time* *of* *changing* *it*, AND didn't also come with the extra slap in the face of a nerf, AND failed to compensate for non mythical runes broken. Breeding path shenanigans are even worse, because that's another thing that affects smaller players that still have to deal with a breeding path in which their plan can, at any time, with no warning, go up in a puff of smoke, because PG decided to remove a backbreed for some unknown reason. Whales already have those dragons, so it only keeps the smaller players that much farther behind, when they find out they can't participate in the breeding event.

              5: Performance issues. Events are a horrendous pain to deal with. For the last 6 months or so, I am very lucky if I can load the event at all after I've flown a base. To the point that I just force close after the attack is done, because 90% of the time I get either "web page busy" forever, or a blackscreen if I try to close out of it. If you have boats beta, it is like all of the normal event loading problems on steroids.

              That's all I can think of atm. Fixing these would get rid of most toxicity on the forums. Not all, because haters gonna hate, but most of it.
              Last edited by Kittens; 07-29-2017, 12:34 PM.


              • Rakic
                Rakic commented
                Editing a comment
                Well usually the whales are worse off because they usually don't get to take advantage of backbreeds since they breed them all in one day. Often back breeda are introduced when a new tier is released, but since they already collected them all they can't take advantage of them.

              • Kittens
                Kittens commented
                Editing a comment
                That's not a bad thing. There needs to be a premium for top content, but the price also needs to come down to a point where, at a minimum, active mid level spenders can at least progress through it as fast as it was originally released, even if they're a few months behind. This is currently impossible. You can't even tread water 2 tiers behind without extremely high spending.

            • #12
              PG have proven, beyond all doubt, that as a company they simply don't care about their customer base.

              They simply refuse to put players on the same level as their investors, and that means this game is dying as you read this.

              I have spent thousands of dollars on this game, and have spent the last year hoping that PG would finally wake up start doing what is right by players. They haven't, and I don't believe they will.

              The release of Obsidian (pure greed), refusal to take action on gold chest dilution, exponential reduction in value from 'value packs' after level 200, ridiculous breeding costs after Platinum, constantly increasing sigil costs, constantly increasing prize tiers, nerfing of chest contents - all reasons I now refuse to spend another dollar on this game.


              • Kittens
                Kittens commented
                Editing a comment
                That's the thing: Nerfs come from every possible direction, so even when PG "improves" something, they've nerfed everything else at the same time, making it a net loss for the player. A good example is "opportunities for more sigils", meaning the blackbloods mini event + Higher sigil costs that already more than offset it + reduced egg token/shards in the sigil prizes + raised tiers in events for the same prizes + chest dilution. All of which would be relatively small taken separately, but extremely large when combined.

              • Dravoz
                Dravoz commented
                Editing a comment
                So true, Kittens. Reduce reward, increase cost. Repeat until big spenders stop spending.

            • #13
              I usually take up for PG by not getting into it or joining in with the trash talk. After all they are a for profit business and they need to make money. With that said, I am not a whale spender. I did have my issue with PG when they decided to switch around the explosive shield for leathal barrier for Sage and Tarrand. I was "promised" that I would have my runes returned to me in my vault at the same level. Now, they totally bold face lied to me and said no, they will no longer remove runes. Not to big of a deal in the big sense of things because those dragons are going to be benched within 6 months to a year like Necroth & Sage when the new tiers and seasonal dragons come out. PG just needs to focus on following through on what they say instead of going back on their word. Just to make it clear, I do not believe in the integrity of the PG staff or the characters sending out auto responders for a totally different topic instead answering the question.


              • #14
                Dear PG,

                I would spend money with you again under any of the following circumstances:

                A) the content was worth the price (chests);
                B) the content was face-value accurate (spells/runes); or
                C) the content was immersive/enjoyable/worth my time

                I still spend money on games. I just don't spend it on you.

                Don't you want to change that?


                • #15
                  1. I agree with every valid point here, and having spent thousands in this game myself I also feel ripped off by PG not getting any lasting value for the dollars spent

                  ​​​​​​​2. I agree this game is going downhill fast, but I feel this is due to the severity of the cheating that is still prevalent despite the great efforts of CampusLifer

                  3. I'd like to circle back to the original post here, the F'n trolls here are out of control!!! I have a sick feeling that PG employees who are tired of listening to us "whine" and "bitch" all day are trolling these forums, and that PG is turning a blind eye to this. Enough already, take action to ease the minds of your paying customers and ensure that your employees are not doing this.

                  Recently I've seen more transparency from PG than I have in 2 years, but you need to do WAY more before more people do what I did and simply stop spending money. You are going to lose your great revenue stream from people like me who are fed up. Its inevitable considering how you choose to ignore us.


                  • Goober
                    Goober commented
                    Editing a comment
                    DarthDaggerz I'm not a troll or an employee of pg. 😑

                  • DarthDaggerz
                    DarthDaggerz commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Customers are encouraged to come to this forum and be able to get support, instead we get harassed by assholes with nothing better to do all day.

                    PG is basically saying FU to us by allowing this to happen, and I'm fucking over it. This game is ruined by cheating, and this forum is ruined by fuckn trolls.

                    Soon there will be no paying customers because we are treated like shit. Did I get your attention yet PG??

                  • ITIL
                    ITIL commented
                    Editing a comment
                    A few options:
                    * Toy with the trolls until you're bored of them
                    * Ignore and/or block
                    * Ignore the forums

                    To some extent, things could be a bit more strict, but it can be hard to draw that line. Also, the conspiracy theory with PG employees trolling doesn't help your case with trying to garner sympathy.