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Food Economy Data and Proposal

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  • Food Economy Data and Proposal

    Introduction


    Overview:
    As it stands, the food economy is broken. This is not said from an analyst’s viewpoint, this is said from a player’s viewpoint. The higher you go, the less people there are to raid and the less food there is to take due to the protection code. The current farm production is nowhere near adequate when related to the cost to level and fly dragons.


    Increasing the production, primarily at the higher levels, would put more food into the economy on the higher end which means larger players could actually raid for their own food. As it stands now, players over level 200 cannot legitimately raid for themselves effectively. Instead, the higher levels must follow lower levels on raids. This promotes teamwork, yes, but it also means the higher levels are completely unable to help their team in this way. The discrepancy in food available to raid is as extreme as a level 118 finding 20-50k food regularly to hit where a level 229 is finding 1-7k regularly to hit. The higher you go, the worse it is. This means that the highest spenders in the game have it the worst.


    Goals:
    Put more food into the economy so…
    • Feeding dragons feels like part of the game, not a privilege for the very wealthy
    • An active player can fly their dragons more often
    • Players over level 200 actually have something to raid for themselves




    Current Dragon Information
    Minimum Level
    Food to Fly Max
    1-Expert Cost
    Final Level Cost
    Den Required
    Storage Required
    Legendary Gold
    91
    960
    7,147,595
    481,320
    18
    31
    Legendary Platinum - 30 Expert
    132
    1,284
    10,261,739
    643,765
    26
    39
    Legendary Platinum - 35 Expert
    132
    1,284
    13,480,564
    643,765
    26
    39
    Mythic Sapphire
    158
    1,918
    19,190,806
    936,659
    32
    52
    Mythic Garnet
    186
    2,338
    24,148,344
    1,141,766
    39
    62



    Current Farm to Dragon Information
    Level
    Min Lvl
    RSS / Hour
    RSS Cap
    Protected
    % Total Cost RSS / Hour
    % Total Cost RSS Cap
    % Total Cost Protected
    % Final Lvl Cost RSS / Hour
    % Final Lvl Cost RSS Cap
    % Final Lvl Cost Protection
    Flights / Hour
    Tier Based on
    23 (Gold Max)
    71
    1,949
    40,950
    14,332
    0.027%
    0.573%
    0.201%
    0.405%
    8.508%
    2.978%
    2.03
    Gold
    24
    73
    3,040
    44,730
    15,655
    0.023%
    0.332%
    0.116%
    0.572%
    6.948%
    2.432%
    2.37
    Platinum
    25
    74
    3,680
    44,730
    16,978
    0.027%
    0.332%
    0.126%
    0.572%
    6.948%
    2.637%
    2.87
    Platinum
    26
    74
    4,400
    52,290
    18,301
    0.033%
    0.388%
    0.136%
    0.683%
    8.123%
    2.843%
    3.43
    Platinum
    27
    74
    4,720
    56,070
    19,624
    0.035%
    0.416%
    0.146%
    0.733%
    8.710%
    3.048%
    3.68
    Platinum
    28
    74
    5,030
    59,850
    20,947
    0.037%
    0.444%
    0.155%
    0.781%
    9.297%
    3.254%
    3.92
    Platinum
    29 (Platinum Max)
    74
    5,350
    63,630
    22,270
    0.040%
    0.472%
    0.165%
    0.831%
    9.884%
    3.459%
    4.17
    Platinum
    30
    76
    5,670
    67,410
    23,593
    0.030%
    0.351%
    0.123%
    0.605%
    7.197%
    2.519%
    2.96
    Sapphire
    31
    78
    5,990
    71,190
    24,916
    0.031%
    0.371%
    0.130%
    0.640%
    7.600%
    2.660%
    3.12
    Sapphire
    32 (Sapphire Max)
    78
    6,310
    74,970
    26,239
    0.033%
    0.391%
    0.137%
    0.674%
    8.004%
    2.801%
    3.29
    Sapphire
    33
    78
    6,620
    78,750
    27,562
    0.027%
    0.326%
    0.114%
    0.580%
    6.897%
    2.414%
    2.83
    Garnet
    34
    78
    6,940
    83,530
    28,885
    0.029%
    0.346%
    0.120%
    0.608%
    7.316%
    2.530%
    2.97
    Garnet
    35 (Garnet Max)
    78
    7,260
    86,310
    30,208
    0.030%
    0.357%
    0.125%
    0.636%
    7.559%
    2.646%
    3.11
    Garnet

    When Gold Tier was the highest dragon tier in the game, farms and mills were capped at 23. With Platinum we moved to 29, then Sapphire to 32 and Garnet to 35. Knowing that, let’s compare the total cost and final level cost of the highest dragon in that tier. The Resources (RSS) / hour, the cap, and protected amount are all before research and taken from @Amoeba’s website.

    At level 23, along the top row, you can see the percentages tied to the production rates, cap, and protection in the farms as related to the total cost of Gold Legendary dragons and the cost to level said dragons from 29 to 30 (expert). For level 29 you can see the statistics as related to Platinum dragons, level 32 Sapphire, and level 35 Garnet.

    For the level 29 farms, I have highlighted in green how the production, cap, and protection relates to the Legendary Platinum dragons (those who expert at 35, not 30). The reason I have done is this very simple - these % are what I would consider to be the ideal ones. For most points, it is the highest %, but not always. The reason I chose this level was due to the 6 addition Pocket Gems gave to feed Platinum Dragons. At this time, I feel they put in careful consideration and balanced the needs of the game. These green numbers are what we will use in the two proposed changes below.



    Last edited by TheRedDelilah; 04-04-2017, 12:20 PM.
    Love Red,

    Leader of Rulith
    Lover of Spreadsheets



    Helpful Threads:
    How to Build YOUR Ultimate Breeding Path
    Red's Breeding Paths: Sapphire to Emerald
    Red's Cheapest Breeding Paths: Orange to Emerald

    Proposals:
    League Restructure
    Brief Forum Reorganization

    Rulith's Website:
    All Breeding Paths
    Red's Guide to Flying Hunters
    Dragon's, etc.

  • #2
    Proposals 1 and 2
    Keep the Levels, Change the Output




    Based on % Final Feed
    Level Min Lvl RSS / Hour RSS Cap Protected % Final Lvl Cost RSS / Hour % Final Lvl Cost RSS Cap % Final Lvl Cost Protection Flights / Hour Tier Based on
    23 (Gold Max) 71 4,000 47,554 16,649 0.83% 9.88% 3.46% 4.17 Gold
    24 73 4,313 50,214 16,416 0.67% 7.80% 2.55% 3.36 Platinum
    25 74 4,506 52,789 17,704 0.70% 8.20% 2.75% 3.51 Platinum
    26 74 4,699 55,364 18,991 0.73% 8.60% 2.95% 3.66 Platinum
    27 74 4,957 57,939 20,279 0.77% 9.00% 3.15% 3.86 Platinum
    28 74 5,150 60,514 21,566 0.80% 9.40% 3.35% 4.01 Platinum
    29 (Platinum Max) 74 5,350 63,604 22,268 0.83% 9.88% 3.46% 4.17 Platinum
    30 76 5,995 72,591 26,695 0.64% 7.75% 2.85% 3.13 Sapphire
    31 78 6,838 81,958 29,036 0.73% 8.75% 3.10% 3.56 Sapphire
    32 (Sapphire Max) 78 7,784 92,542 32,408 0.83% 9.88% 3.46% 4.06 Sapphire
    33 78 8,335 99,905 34,253 0.73% 8.75% 3.00% 3.56 Garnet
    34 78 8,906 105,613 36,537 0.78% 9.25% 3.20% 3.81 Garnet
    35 (Garnet Max) 78 9,488 112,806 39,494 0.83% 9.88% 3.46% 4.06 Garnet



    Based on % Total Feed
    Level Min Lvl RSS / Hour RSS Cap Protected % Total Cost RSS / Hour % Total Cost RSS Cap % Total Cost Protection Flights / Hour Tier Based on
    23 (Gold Max) 71 2,859 40,950 11,808 0.040% 0.573% 0.165% 2.98 Gold
    24 73 3,101 43,812 14,829 0.023% 0.325% 0.11% 2.41 Platinum
    25 74 3,505 50,552 16,177 0.026% 0.375% 0.120% 2.73 Platinum
    26 74 3,909 57,292 17,525 0.029% 0.425% 0.130% 3.04 Platinum
    27 74 4,314 64,033 18,873 0.032% 0.475% 0.140% 3.36 Platinum
    28 74 4,718 70,773 20,221 0.035% 0.525% 0.150% 3.67 Platinum
    29 (Platinum Max) 74 5,392 77,233 22,270 0.040% 0.573% 0.165% 4.20 Platinum
    30 76 6,141 86,359 26,867 0.032% 0.450% 0.14% 3.20 Sapphire
    31 78 7,005 97,873 28,786 0.0365% 0.510% 0.15% 3.65 Sapphire
    32 (Sapphire Max) 78 7,676 109,948 31,703 0.040% 0.573% 0.165% 4.00 Sapphire
    33 78 8,210 120,742 33,808 0.034% 0.500% 0.14% 3.51 Garnet
    34 78 8,935 129,194 36,223 0.037% 0.535% 0.15% 3.82 Garnet
    35 (Garnet Max) 78 9,659 138,351 39,893 0.040% 0.573% 0.165% 4.13 Garnet





    Proposal 3
    Keep the Output, Change the Levels
    Level Min Lvl RSS / Hour RSS Cap Protected RSS / Hour Growth RSS Cap Growth Protected Growth Builder Hut Requirement Eggs Required
    23 71 1,949 40,950 14,332 11 Orange
    24 73 3,040 44,730 15,655 64.11% 91.55% 91.55% 11 Orange
    25 74 3,680 48,510 16,978 82.61% 92.21% 92.21% 12 Orange
    26 74 4,400 52,290 18,301 83.64% 92.77% 92.77% 12 Orange
    27 74 4,720 56,070 19,624 93.22% 93.26% 93.26% 13 Green
    28 74 5,030 59,850 20,947 93.84% 93.68% 93.68% 13 Green
    29 74 5,350 63,630 22,270 94.02% 94.06% 94.06% 14 Green
    30 76 5,670 67,410 23,593 94.36% 94.39% 94.39% 14 Green
    31 78 5,990 71,190 24,916 94.66% 94.69% 94.69% 14 Green
    32 78 6,310 74,970 26,239 94.93% 94.96% 94.96% 14 Green
    33 78 6,620 78,750 27,562 95.32% 95.20% 95.20% 17 Green
    34 78 6,940 83,530 28,885 95.39% 94.28% 95.42% 17 Green
    35 78 7,260 86,310 30,208 95.59% 96.78% 95.62% 18 Green
    36 142 7,587 89,182 31,526 95.69% 96.78% 95.82% 23 Platinum
    37 158 7,920 92,149 32,833 95.79% 96.78% 96.02% 24 Platinum
    38 158 8,260 95,215 34,122 95.89% 96.78% 96.22% 26 Sapphire
    39 166 8,605 98,383 35,389 95.99% 96.78% 96.42% 26 Sapphire
    40 166 8,955 101,656 36,627 96.09% 96.78% 96.62% 27 Sapphire
    41 178 9,310 105,038 37,830 96.19% 96.78% 96.82% 27 Sapphire
    42 178 9,669 108,533 38,992 96.29% 96.78% 97.02% 27 Sapphire
    43 186 10,031 112,144 40,107 96.39% 96.78% 97.22% ? ?
    44 186 10,396 115,875 41,169 96.49% 96.78% 97.42% ? ?
    45 186 10,763 119,731 42,173 96.59% 96.78% 97.62% ? ?



    *The % created for the growth difference for the additional levels were chosen based on the most obvious pattern from the established farm/mill specifics.*

    If the issue with food economy was fixed by adding more levels to farms rather than simply adjusting the production, this would have far more benefits. Proposal 3 would not only help solve the food economy issue in a realistic way, but it would bring back the use of farms and mills as they relate to base set-up and defending. A max level farm at the moment can be taken down easily. However, if max level farms had more HP to keep up with the towers at the minimum player level needed, they would become far more useful. This proposal would also allow Pocket Gems to be careful where they adjusted the economy by ensuring that food entered the game at the top, where the issue is, rather than flooding the whole game.

    Conclusion



    Something must be done about the current state of the food economy - players at the higher tiers are desperate for some glimmer of hope and are near the cliff's edge. The goal of this proposal was not to say that I know better than anyone else, especially not someone who has this specialty professionally, but I hope it brings some new ideas and perspectives to mind. This will not be my only proposal on the subject of food, but an introduction.

    I did this proposal with the best intensions at heart and as a sign that the player base is will to do something about it. We want to raid for food, we want to work hard for what we get, but all the activity and dragons in the world cannot create food where there is none.
    Last edited by TheRedDelilah; 04-04-2017, 12:19 PM.
    Love Red,

    Leader of Rulith
    Lover of Spreadsheets



    Helpful Threads:
    How to Build YOUR Ultimate Breeding Path
    Red's Breeding Paths: Sapphire to Emerald
    Red's Cheapest Breeding Paths: Orange to Emerald

    Proposals:
    League Restructure
    Brief Forum Reorganization

    Rulith's Website:
    All Breeding Paths
    Red's Guide to Flying Hunters
    Dragon's, etc.

    Comment


    • Gary2975
      Gary2975 commented
      Editing a comment
      Great work Red, as always. To me it looks like you've put much more effort into proposal 1 and 2 than you have 3 as the third has some glaring problems. One is it skips gold tier completely and the second is the platinum level starts at min level 142. You can Expert platinums at 132 and the minimum required level to start platinum should be much lower than Expert anyway. The jump from level 35 to 36 under this proposal is waaaaay too high.

    • TheRedDelilah
      TheRedDelilah commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Gary2975 - thanks for the comment.

      The "Eggs Required" is related to the builders hut, not the dragons the player is actually flying. I recognize there is a large jump from level 35 to 36 and that is to keep the economy from flooding. Allow me to use the example of one of my accounts.

      My level 122 account has a roster that includes two Sapphires capped at level 11. If you look at Proposal 1 and 2, the Sapphire MAX levels have a proposed production per hour of 7,784 and 7,676. Currently my max level (35) farms on my 122 account produce 7,260. I cannot have an expert Legendary Sapphire dragon, let alone a mythic, yet my production levels are nearly what they should be for max level Sapphires according to my other proposals. This is reason 1 as to why the level requirement jump from farm level 35 to farm level 36 is so high - players my level don't need an increase.

      In fact, I can't expert my Legendary Sapphire until 154 and my Mythic Sapphire until 158. Since Proposal 1 and 2 base the production rate of "Sapphire Max" farms on either fully feeding a Mythic Sapphire dragon 1-35 or feeding just the final level and my current production rates are similar without being able to come close to these dragon levels, I thought the level jump from farm 35 to 36 to be appropriate.

      I will, however, be able to get my first Garnet Legendary at level 132 (in theory) which is why I based farm 36 off of a level 142. Level 142 is when I can feed my Legendary Garnet dragon to level 2.

      Farm level 37 has the requirement of 158. This is the lowest level possible to expert a Mythic Sapphire. Thus, this farm should be on par with Proposal 1 and 2 level 32 farms, but it is actually higher.



      I hope this introduction into my thought process behind Proposal 3 makes things a little bit clearer. I'm sorry I didn't include it in the post, but thank you for asking. If you still have questions or concerns, please let me know!

  • #3
    Another issue is with the raiding formula for high lv vs low and vice versa. A lv150 can take down a lv200 base and get a ton of food. The lv200 can't get much at all from a lv150. So food in general travels downhill. Food production actually proportional to dragons would be a big help, but also having a raiding formula, maybe more similar to xp, which doesn't seem to have as big a penalty above lv100, so that it's possible for some of the food to get back up to high levels. Food production does need to increase enough that it's unlikely for a high to hit a low, because the highs have that much more food, but it should be possible in an extreme inbalance. I'd hate to be one of those 400+ whales and realize you can't raid food from anyone except like a couple other guys. Also, it would be nice to have more strengthened bases that a 150 couldn't take down a 200, but then the absurd token costs of the sapphire/garnet tier make it impossible for dragons to keep up with bases, so you could get a situation where you can't defeat your own base until you've spent another half million tokens on breeders plus one good dragon.

    Comment


    • TheRedDelilah
      TheRedDelilah commented
      Editing a comment
      Very good point. It would be interesting to see blocks for raiding rather than just a basic "they are lower than you so you can get anything from them". This is a key thing to bring up, thank you.

  • #4
    What about reducing the amount of food required to feed dragons by say 35% ? I haven't done any number crunching or anything just throwing it out there

    Comment


    • Shenanigans
      Shenanigans commented
      Editing a comment
      Well if they were do implement something like that, it would have to be done across the board to keep their percentages and formulas consistent. But i figure this way, they would not have to develop anything new, it would just be a quick altering. That being said why lower the cost when you can get all the food packs you need if you buy enough gold chests (my assumption of PGs response)

    • Warchant
      Warchant commented
      Editing a comment
      I have said before there should be a research node added to each level of research that gave a reduction in all feeding costs. This would go a long way to accomplishing the goal and would seem to be a pretty easy fix. Put them at the end of the colored chain and have them be a very low cost (like 1 egg of the respective color) so the main research branches would have to be done first.

      Red: 1% Reduction
      Purple: 2%
      Blue: 3%
      Orange: 4%
      Green: 5%
      Gold: 5%
      Platinum: 5% (Yes I know that would be 2 nodes in 1 tier)

      That's a 25% reduction in currently available research. With room for additional 5% reduction nodes in future Sapphire, Garnet, and Emerald research tiers if those are ever a thing.

    • Martini69
      Martini69 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thats the point every new tier makes it harder to collect the amount of food neccesary to grow your dragon that was the reason they came up with the stupid watch dragon towers to use all your food and have none to get raided get the player desperate and. USe money

      te

  • #5
    couldn't agree more. I had a lvl 250 tell me about a person that had 115k food available. what did I do? race into the attack screen. I could raid something like 14k from him. That's not a big deal. if I find 71 more bases of 14k, and never get hit I can train my dragons!

    Comment


    • #6
      Increasing storage protection without the boost will also help. Currently, it's at 10%. This should go up to 25% including farm's protection as well. This should alleviate food problem especially for team who coordinate among its members. It's already hard to find food at high level just to get looted when you are looting because there is not enough protection.

      Comment


      • TheRedDelilah
        TheRedDelilah commented
        Editing a comment
        I would have to agree with Sabin76 - while it would be nice to have higher protection (and for mega high levels, this is a serious issue), increasing protection would simply mean there is less yet again to raid.

      • Dixwell
        Dixwell commented
        Editing a comment
        We need both. Increased production and massively increased STORAGE protection at higher levels.

        The simple fact is that you can't possibly raid enough food to make up the 900K food needed above your storage protection before getting raided yourself. Even if you increase production, finding those 6-8 totally full people (that are actually full and not just server lag or raided right before you get there) successfully raiding them takes far too long.

        Storage protection needs to be 3-5 times what it is now to make reasonable leveling (as in, maybe 1 dragon every 2 days) possible solo.

      • Kittens
        Kittens commented
        Editing a comment
        Protection isn't as important if we're talking about having more food production overall. To put it another way: Let's say right now it takes 800k to feed a dragon, you get 20k per raid. Having above 20k showing puts you at increased risk of attack, so obviously if you're at like 700k and showing probably 200k food, you're at extreme risk of attack. But, with more food production, and you get 100k per attack, you're not at much risk of being attacked until you're showing 100k. There's still a ways to go (as it is when you're lower level, if you're trying to feed a dragon solo, you're on a treadmill raiding vs being raided, but you can eventually make it) The point is, more food existing everywhere protects you from being raided in and of itself. That's the most important factor. Add in transfers, and it doesn't have to be that much harder than at the lower levels. The same proportion of protection should work about the same at all levels.

    • #7
      TL;DR version: Put out new farm levels, put a strict minimum player level. Everybody pls level your farms!




      I have noticed that there are TONS of mid level players (84-128) that are not even close to having max level farms for production because they believe they can simply raid the food from others with their OP dragons like skarr and tarand and nightshade. They have their farms down at level 15-19, nowhere even close to introducing their fair share of food into the economy and they and simply food "sinks" if you will.

      Our team always prides itself in every core member having max level farms (or at least reasonable level) so we can ALL help out with RSS giving between teammates, but it seems for a lot of others out there they simply don't care. They feed ALL of their dragons, level very very fast, and don't contribute by inputting food into the economy. They are a major source of food loss in the economy from my outsider perspective.

      I think this is drastically hurting the mid-high game economy and food definitely needs to be pushed and introduced at a player level ABOVE what i am at currently. A minimum player level should be a requirement for some of these new farms like you have indicated in your proposal, and right after level 132 is around where it should start. By providing these individuals with more food, the OP mid level dragons can still raid the slightly higher levels (with less success rate these days with flak cannons) than they are currently, but there will also be more food to bounce around teams from simple production and there will be less scavenging from even higher level players who have to in turn raid even higher level players.


      Comment


      • Kittens
        Kittens commented
        Editing a comment
        Another thing that would help related to this to add a "double tap" emptying of farms mechanic. 1 - empties farm up to its protection limit (there's no reason ever to hold more than this in farms while you're on), 2 - empties the rest. As it is, you can't even check without emptying. This would make it in your own personal interest to have the highest possible farms, because that's more protection for yourself. You can strategically take advantage of this protection right now, but that involves setting a timer and doing the math, and you can't do it if there's already enough in there that you're at risk of being attacked from farms alone (while you're hunting/bouncing food). People don't upgrade farms, because there's not enough personal benefit to do so. If there's a double tap empty, the extra amount still may be stolen while they sleep, but at least they can benefit from more food protection while they're actually hunting, and they'll keep them upgraded as much as possible for that reason.

      • Sabin76
        Sabin76 commented
        Editing a comment
        As an advocate for the "see how much is in your farms/mills" suggestion, I really like Kittens idea.

    • #8
      Pretty good proposal Red,
      I would say for the current situation the Proposal 2 is my favorite. However the proposal 3 also carries it benefits in the long run.
      Last edited by AngelOfVoid; 04-04-2017, 01:35 PM.

      Comment


      • #9
        I also think production should be set based on total feed. Because at the end of the day, it's total food production - total food consumption. The amount available per individual feed is just a product of this. Also, (I'm not sure if this is the case), this needs to include all dragons (6 legendary + 3 mythic) per tier, plus divines. Maybe based on the expected amount in the roster / level. Feeding 5 dragons at x cost is a lot different than feeding 2 at that same cost. For me personally, I'm getting a bigger and bigger backlog of dragons, only even attempting to feed for cheapest/breeding level/ single strongest dragon. Which at this point, and for a long time will be nighshade. No other dragon even matters past breeding up until my first mythic, which is months and months down the road. I have probably 30-40 mil worth of hunger backlog on dragons, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of other people are like this, so there's a HUGE food sink before you can even attempt to evaluate if there's a balance of any kind.

        Comment


        • #10
          Thank you for your time and dedication in the game Red. I love all of the three options you gave to PG. It's good that you allow others to raid more from the farms, but that means if you can get more from others, the others can get more from you too.
          I'd like to add my two cents in here, feel free to let me know Red.
          In addition to this proposal I think it would be better if we could feed the dragons in increments. For example, a mythic dragon needs 1M+ food to feed. With this proposal, you can find 50% of that in much shorter time. But then, you still heavily rely on your teammates to spot you the rest. So why not let us feed that 500k food first, then have 500k left over to feed later. This will reduce the strains on needing 20m+ food to feed all the backlogged dragons.

          Comment


          • TheRedDelilah
            TheRedDelilah commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you - I always try to help.

            I have seen that suggestion before (here and elsewhere), and it causes me to hesitate. If people can feed in increments, that means there will be less food for people to raid since they will just immediately push it towards their dragons. I think it sounds nice for us, but when I look at a bigger picture I fear it would cause more harm than good in the long run.

          • Kytax
            Kytax commented
            Editing a comment
            What if rather than allowing just generic incremental feeding, it set so that you could do a specific percentage at a time (I'm thinking 50% once, then the other 50% for a second feed). this way, you aren't raiding for nearly as much at once, but you also can't just dump all excess food to whichever dragon you feel like, there is still a benchmark.

            I'm nowhere near the range where the food shortage is a problem for me, so I don't know how much of an overall impact that would have on either the people trying to save or the people trying to raid that food from them, but at least there would be an option to ease the pain a little

        • #11
          Sorry, guys. I have an very naive questions. Why PG force dragons to eat all the food at once? Is it possible to let dragon eat their food gradually in a short period of time?
          Assume the following conditions:
          (1) a dragon need total 2000 food to upgrade.
          (2) a player can farm 100 food per hour on average.
          (3) set up a food decay rate: gradually lose 5% of the current food per hour and the lost food goes back to storage. (dragon will become hungry without keep feeding)
          Then your goal is to make the food bar goes to 100%.

          PG can set up the rate based on total food requirement, player farming rate, farm production rate and the lvl of dragon, something like:

          food_decay_rate = total_food/(player_farming_rate + farm_production_rate) * (1-dragon_lvl/100)
          (For math guys: the feeding speed follow an exponential decay in above example, so without reducing the factor, theoretically one cannot reach 100%. )

          So, player need to feed the dragon frequently enough. Otherwise, the dragon cannot be successfully upgraded.
          And the feeding requirement won't change dramatically for low and high lvl dragons:
          Low lvl dragons has high food_decay_rate and low amount of total food requirement.
          High lvl dragons has low food _decay_rate and high amount of total food requirement.

          This may sound like a very bad idea and cause lots of trouble. Welcome to piss me off...

          Btw, Shen points out the possibility of reduced food availability.
          The total free food won't change a lot as the losing food in food bar will goes back to storage. However, if some one utilize the strategy to protect food, it will cause serious problem. One simple solution is to make sure that dragons can only accumulate food bar when they fulfill upgrade requirement (player lvl, exp, dragon den lvl). And there should be blocking time between each feeding.
          Last edited by DracolichKing; 04-04-2017, 04:59 PM.

          Comment


          • DracolichKing
            DracolichKing commented
            Editing a comment
            Hi, Shen. If you are not keep raiding. food-bar will drop to 0. You have to re-start feed your dragon again. And other body can raid these amount to feed their dragon. On population lvl, the total amount of free food won't change a lot unless it is on the beginning of feeding event, which has already been cancelled by PG.
            Last edited by DracolichKing; 04-04-2017, 04:37 PM.

          • TheRedDelilah
            TheRedDelilah commented
            Editing a comment
            DracolichKing - I honestly think people would just use this to keep food safe. Additionally, being able to feed in increments means there will be less food for people to raid since they will just immediately push it towards their dragons. I think it sounds nice for us, but when I look at a bigger picture I fear it would cause more harm than good in the long run.

          • DracolichKing
            DracolichKing commented
            Editing a comment
            TheRedDelilah - You and Shen are definitely correct! Utilize the rule to protect food is the most headache problem to this strategy. So that's why I said put some cd time between each feeding. (The CD time could be increased with the food bar percentage). During the CD time, decay_rate% of food will gradually goes back to storage, which can be raid by others (The more you hold, the more you will lose. Assume decay_rate is 5%, and cd linearly increase with food bar: if you hold 30% of the food, 5% * 3=15% food will be returned to storage before next feeding time; but if you hold 80% of the food, 5%*8=40% food will be returned before next feeding, this is really a big number.

            Your statistics shows that the main problem is due to the drop down of the rss rate. They are the top priority to solve. But I am worried that even through the rate is up, high lvl players still cannot easily upgrade their dragons. As you mentioned, farming enough rss is much harder and takes much longer for high lvl players than mid/low lvl players. This means that the speed of food flow from low to high is much lower than the speed flow from high to low. We need a way to make food flow from low to high. That's why I think some weak protection strategy might be necessary.

            Above strategy can help high lvl players gradually accumulate food from low lvl players by reducing the food floating speed from high to low. A dragon tier multiplier can also be applied to increase the food_decay_rate in low tier dragon, which prevent low lvl players to use food bar to protect their food. Thus use food bar to protect food will only be effective for high lvl players with top tier dragons.

            This may hurt mid/low lvl players like me, as we can no longer farm enough food without spending lots of runs and time. But we still have high lvl players in team to help us. On the opposite, if high lvl players cannot reach their goal, mid/low lvl players can merely help. (And I think most teams are following this lumber raiding/floating pattern in fortification event: transfer rss to big guns and they accumulate rss and gives back. Yes, lots of people complain about lumber shortage and protecting/dumping rss in fort event: we are happy to see others raid 0 rss from us while we are angry to see we raid 0 rss from others. But most of our complainers are happy at the end of the event because we still can reach affordable personal prizes with the help from our team. )
            Last edited by DracolichKing; 04-04-2017, 09:19 PM.

        • #12
          You know I have always wondered why they didn't let the dragons have periodical feeds/snacks?
          What I mean by that is lets say your dragon takes 1 million food to level.

          I think the biggest problem which exist in the game isn't the lack of food.
          I think it is the lack of being able to actually acquire 1 million food in a huge lump sum.

          Most players have food in there base.
          They just can't feed any dragon with it because in order to feed the dragon you have to gather a huge lump sum.
          Once a person has gathered a certain amount of food they get raided.

          I have always wondered why the game didn't let players to give the dragon periodical feeds/snacks.

          For example:
          Lets say your dragon takes 1 million food.
          However, you only have 100k in your base.
          Why can't you feed the dragon 100k food.

          Than the over all amount to level the dragon will than reduce to 900k.
          You can keep doing this until you have feed the dragon all the way to the point it levels up.

          It is very unhealthy to have the dragons eating 1 huge lump sum meal in a single sitting.
          The Development team is turning the dragons into Gluttons.
          It is very unhealthy.

          Don't the Developing team even pay attention to Health Organizations?
          Humans are suppose to have 3 meals a day.
          They even encourage humans to eat snacks to have a healthy life style.

          Why can't the dragons be healthy as well?

          Comment


          • PlayerJ
            PlayerJ commented
            Editing a comment
            No idea what game you are playing @wardragonslayne.
            We have events more than wars.
            So why does it even matter?

            Frankly, They can call the game Farm Dragons, Event Dragons, Fun Dragons, or anything in between.
            As long as our dragons get feed, I honestly don't care what they call the game.
            You shouldn't either!
            Last edited by PlayerJ; 04-05-2017, 12:17 AM.

          • Mechengg
            Mechengg commented
            Editing a comment
            It is supposed to take at least a bit of effort and coordination to feed big dragons. If one simply logs in a few times a day to use their farm production to feed dragons there is zero skill or effort involved. Well ok, there is 1% effort involved but that is it.

          • PlayerJ
            PlayerJ commented
            Editing a comment
            @Mechengg

            I disagree that it takes a coordinated effort.
            I believe a individual person should be able to acquire food for his dragon with out having to rely on his team hugely.
            It puts a lot of strain on a team if everyone is incapable of being self sufficient.

            Furthermore, Players having to rely on a coordinated effort will cause the same pandemic we currently have.
            The main issue being that all players will ultimately need to rely on a coordinated effort.

            I feel that we should be able to chip away at the huge total.
            Than I do believe once the total becomes more manageable.
            Players will coordinate.

            For example:
            Lets say total cost is 1 million.
            After a few days of chipping away at it with 100k food.
            You end up with lets say 300k in order to get it leveled.

            I honestly do believe people would try to acquire that 300k with help from team in a coordinated effort.
            You could argue that a person would just wait a few more days.
            However, I honestly don't think people would.
            I think they would be more inclined to finish the total since the amount is a lot more reasonable.

            In addition, The only way for a person to coordinate is to be on a team.
            The game does allow players to play as individual players.
            They did say they are trying to cater the whole game.
            It would include people in teams + people with out teams.
            You are basically saying that unless a person joins a team they will never be able to feed there dragons.
            Last edited by PlayerJ; 04-05-2017, 09:36 AM.

        • #13
          Lord Malik
          Playing:2yrs
          LV: 199
          Current league:sapphire

          I agree the farms need to be rasied and the complied data
          is impressive as are the above proposals!

          And I also agree farms shouldn't be irrelevant and their level
          should be adjusted slightly but as they can seriously unbalance
          defense they should be adjusted carefully!

          And I do agree the food economy could be "adjusted"slightly!!
          but do I think it's broken?

          NO!!!

          Did he just say the food economy is not broken!?

          Yes!

          Yes!
          I did! Lol

          Why...you ask?

          Well it's simple really!
          My team has no issue feeding dragons!
          Yes I said no issue's!

          There is a solution!
          We have solved our teams feeding issues!

          We put some serious thought into it and solved
          the problem!

          I'm sure if you put your minds to it you too can
          solve the issue of feeding.👍

          And no we are not endlessly bouncing res!
          I have looked over the forum and as far as I know
          no one is currently using our method!!
          Stop and really think about the problem it will hit you!

          Good luck
          Dragon lords












          Comment


          • TheRedDelilah
            TheRedDelilah commented
            Editing a comment
            Playing: 2 years
            Level: 229, 161, 118, and 30 (all my accounts)
            League: Sapphire

            Is my team able to feed dragons? Yes.
            Do I think the economy is damaged? Yes.

            I do not believe that hunting for food should be something that our lower levels (below 100/120) are only able to do. I believe that higher levels (200+) should be capable of hunting food for themselves and the team just as well. It's FUN to raid, well it is for lower levels, and it's just becoming stagnant as hell at the high levels.

            Additionally, with dragon perches and some of our "collectors" in the game, having enough food to feed the strongest dragons on our roster would be nice, but being able to help with perches and the collectors who enjoy leveling dragons of all uses would be fun!

            Is increasing production the only fix needed to help the broken food economy? No.
            Would increasing production at higher levels help the food economy? Yes.

          • Kittens
            Kittens commented
            Editing a comment
            needs more colors

            On a more serious note, empty farms, ask people if they need food, or make the request, mass send to that person to get enough for a feeding, otherwise never allow your food above a certain amount where you're likely to be attacked. Wake up in the middle of the night to empty farms as well.

        • #14
          Echo CampusLifer PGJared I think this is a prime example of both something at both its best and its worst...all in one go. You have some, TheRedDelilah , who clearly has a passion for your game and spent a good amount of time both researching and then thinking of a solution and in some ways has done a good amount of the leg work for you guys. I am almost certain this will be completely ignored just like her last creation about league re-structuring/payout because it has nothing to do with the world map that seemingly almost nobody wants. I would love to be proved wrong, but I am pretty sure all this work was for nothing. This was the nice and positive version of this too...

          Comment


          • #15
            Great proposal TheRedDelilah , I think it should be common sense that with a new Dragon Tier they have to release new farm/mill levels that unlock at a reasonable player level.

            However I also agree with Lordmalik that this adjustment has to be made with caution. I think it would be quite boring and killing a big part of the teamplay if we have enough food around, a certain shortage inceases competition and teamwork.

            A few new mill and farm levels would be great for higher level players who are feeding Mythic Garnet or Emerald Dragons but atleast in my team (global top 10) there is no food shortage at all and we have to feed many hungry Garnet Dragons everyday.
            MareZ ~ lvl17X ~ Garnet Tier Dragons

            Important Threads to find everything you need

            Comment


            • Bear
              Bear commented
              Editing a comment
              The problem is that, if there were enough food, not only would I be able to level my current best dragon, but also all the ones I left to starve along the way. We are talking millions of food just for one player multiplied across the entire player base.

              The catch is that we all feel like anything that PG does is fleeting and in the moment. The next update could bring it all crashing down around us. When they first released food packs food started getting great. I actually enjoyed attacking again. Now there is no point because I won't get the food I need to feed any...any...of my dragons before somebody pounces on me because food is so scarce.

              It will get to a point where there is too much food in the economy eventually, but with the deficit we have now it would take awhile. When there is too much food they can just release the next tier of dragon. Lord knows they love doing that.
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