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League Restructure Proposal (+Extrinsic Motivation Proposals)

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  • #46
    TheRedDelilah Thank you for taking time and effort as changes have to be made to stop this game from dying very soon. In order to keep this discussion constructive it would be helpful to have a mod clean up this mess by deleting every single post that is off-topic.

    Whether this will bear fruit is another story. However, chewing through bits of information is no fun at all.


    • #47
      I like this topic and I would keep it as clean as possible. I don't want preclude someone from expressing their opinions but it must be constructive. I moved the "battle" in another topic, you can find here:

      I hope I didn't hurt someone's feelings but this post was taking a bad road.

      I have a job, family, sport, hobby a real life... and I have to play WD... I tried to fix it as well as possible.

      Spooky you are right, Mods need a compensation! (not very veiled request... Jared, Egg... ahahahah)

      Thanks all
      Last edited by Matcava; 03-22-2017, 08:23 AM.
      Winners find solutions, losers find excuses.


      • #48
        The plans are well written and I appreciate you summarize exactly what you hope to achieve with the changes.
        I'm not sure I like the ideas presented as is, as they seem to disproportionately disadvantage new players. It also further disincentivizes a strong team into getting a potentially highly active but weak (in levels) players. I also don't understand how the plan would encourage any team with active players but who also have real-life schedules to want to compete against teams that have players setting their alarms specifically for wars etc, just as things are now.
        On a related point, I think teams should also be divided up by average level (give or take, as well as points). A hard-working lower level team is never going to be able to compete with a lazy high-leveled team, and expecting otherwise is unrealistic. I wouldn't want a average lower level division to be penalized prize-wise versus an equivalent higher average level division in the same points range.


        • Sabin76
          Sabin76 commented
          Editing a comment
          I'll let Red answer most of this, but one thing I wanted to address was your statement about active people with RL schedules vs people with game schedules. As someone who is squarely in the former, I can say that I don't expect to compete on the same level as those in the latter. To expect that would go against the idea of a freemium multiplayer game at its core. I don't consider it a punishment, I consider it an advantage that I, personally, don't have.

        • Owlrager
          Owlrager commented
          Editing a comment
          To be in a league in this system where the payouts are less than they are currently, you either need to be a very new player, or someone who barely plays. A new player who is active and puts any decent amount of time into the game will be able to easily move up into better payouts well before the lower payouts would hinder their progress. The idea is that they must be motivated to do so, and currently they arent.

      • #49
        EggToken PGJared Hydron Echo

        It has been over two months since I made this proposal. Could we please get an update? Sapphire is a joke right now and I am sure Diamond could use the motivation to continue warring...
        Love Red,

        Leader of Rulith
        Lover of Spreadsheets

        Helpful Threads:
        How to Build YOUR Ultimate Breeding Path
        Red's Breeding Paths: Sapphire to Emerald

        Rulith's Website:
        All Breeding Paths
        Red's Guide to Flying Hunters
        Dragon's, etc.

        Twitter - @TheRedDelilah


        • #50
          Why does anyone care how other teams choose to play? Highly competitive teams move to Sapphire and Diamond. Mid to low competitive move to plat and gold. Low competitive or teams,who lack enough players to move up stay in silver. Our top players have played in every league. We lack enough players to move up, although we are close. As you know, in Sapphire or diamond being short one player will make you a target. And it continues on down. So there is built into the game, because of the war set up, and the gift of 5 flames per player for bigger teams, a disincentive to level up leagues because even a team with very strong players can get warred right back down to a lower league by a weak but more populated team. Many of those teams have low active players and players under level 20. Before PG makes a change to league structure, they better fix this very strange issues with wars, which admittedly applies mostly to platinum on down. Anyway, I actually don't care how other teams choose to play. Want to be hyper competitive? Go for it. Sick of the bullying and meanness in higher leagues? Understandable. Maybe I am missing something, but I haven't noticed full teams with high level players in lower leagues. It would make no sense at all.


          • TheRedDelilah
            TheRedDelilah commented
            Editing a comment
            Just a couple of comments:

            "Highly competitive teams move to Sapphire and Diamond."

            While this use to be true, it's not really as simple as that or the case anymore. The discrepancy between top of my league and bottom of my league is absolutely insane. The goal of this proposal is to motivate people and teams who have the ability to be competitive, to be competitive. Most teams avoid Diamond, honestly, because the rewards are pretty minuscule. Thus, I aimed to change that by providing extrinsic motivators to wars, events, and leagues, etc.

            Additionally, because so many teams "sandbag" in Sapphire, meaning they do not move up to Diamond on purpose because Sapphire is just easier for relatively similar rewards, that makes it harder for mid-low Sapphire teams to grow and enjoy the game. Being in a League that is similar to your team is encouraging, where as being the "small team" is rather much the opposite.

            So in my currently League Equilibrium is Rank 1 (global 33) with:
            5 players over level 300
            14 players level 200-299
            17 players level 150-199

            DragonConvenant is Rank 20 (global 510) with:
            0 players over level 300
            0 players level 200-299
            4 players level 150-199

            I don't think a war or event for DragonConvenant is very fun being against teams like Equilibrium in their league. Thus I wanted to change that too so that their team may have more fun and be in a league with similar ranked teams. Would it still be possible to sandbag in lower leagues? Yes, but with my proposal it simply wouldn't be worth it rewards wise and I think people would actually play more.

            On a slightly different note, this league restructure would mean you're more likely to be in teams with like numbers and activity after things settle. The leagues need to be fixed in order for wars to be fixed.

        • #51
          I support this idea, it's long over due.
          It's easier for low level teammates to war against team full of low levels; which in turn will make them feel better and contribute more.


          • #52
            I am happy something is being done regarding the leagues
            IMO individual prizes need to change too lower league = lower prizes
            Maybe they can reduce the effort required to get individual prizes and reduce the number of tiers so that max achievable prize is less. This way lower levels in lower leagues can achieve prizes more easily but max prize is less (which is okay since effort is less)
            Maybe that will stop high level players from chilling in lower leagues and reaping the same benefits.


            • #53
              Wow new league seems like every single team very close to us. Big incentive to do wars and kick butt.

              Sapphire league Angry Alikorns (1765 - 1794 rating) global ratings between 93-122 or so

              However they haven't changed egg tokens so far to my knowledge.


              • EmrahT
                EmrahT commented
                Editing a comment
                Oh we are in same league so, happy to hear it Greet you
                I really wish that they adapt prices, at least it should be logical ... its like a own new league after diamond, with many steps down.
                When we had before 6 different kind of leagues, after this sorting its more like having 10th of leagues.
                Last edited by EmrahT; 05-24-2017, 01:28 PM.

              • Mechengg
                Mechengg commented
                Editing a comment
                Come find me in event and give me base suggestions

            • #54
              well TheRedDelilah , if this is the end of the restructuring, they took your idea, shit on it, threw it out, grabbed it four days later and shit on it again just to make sure it was properly shitted on...


              • odie1993
                odie1993 commented
                Editing a comment
                the problem with that Munt415 is that they could have clearly laid out their plans for a restructure instead of keeping the player base in the dark about how they plan to restructure everything. They do not get the benefit of the doubt anymore.

                Mechengg you are assuming they will change the token amounts.

              • Mechengg
                Mechengg commented
                Editing a comment
                "refresh" the token amounts @odie1993

                AKA if you change leagues, it still takes until the daily reset until the token prize amount actually changes. That is what we should be waiting for instead of all going ballistic at the moment.

              • Munt415
                Munt415 commented
                Editing a comment
                odie1993 yea they should have, but when has pg ever told us what they were going to do.

            • #55
              Our team is not waiting for this nonsense. We are gonna sandbag and drop a league... the prizes should've been set BEFORE THE LEAGUE CHANGES. AND A CLEAR AND CONCISE COMMUNICATION SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE. Many on our team can't compete in the current league due to all members being high level. But we will not sacrifice our friends for team rank.


              • #56
                Thanks PG for an awful change to leagues. Suppose now team hoppers will be dashing for lower end of bracket teams. Rest of us are trashed.


                • #57
                  After waiting and gathering experience for a while I gotta say: I DO NOT LIKE IT

                  The fundamental problems of leagues before have not changed... actually only increased!

                  My personal outcome is this:
                  - we rank lower in events
                  - we war less
                  - we declare wars on Teams without a lvl300+ or with less then 50 members

                  Losing one or two wars gets you out of your league already. Sure you can all say "fight your way back up" - and I agree, it´s a war game. But that is a little too volatile imo.

                  I´m in Sapphire League now (actually the same league then you TheRedDelilah) but I can´t find any positive outcome of all that.
                  Don´t get me wrong I think proposing something is great and the fact that PG changed something too...

                  The effect of the league restructuring is simply that all teams need to have around one Level 300+ that other teams can´t get 5 flames unless having someone in Emerald Tier (which is a Lvl300+ basically). The other effect is that if any Team is dropping to 49 members they IMMEDIATLY get wars. Happend in my league, one Team got 7 wars, the other 5. All other Teams are just sitting there waiting for another Dropout in another Team.


                  • Spooky
                    Spooky commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Yes, I wish PG would get on with appropriately restructuring rewards (team rewards definitely and ideally individual too) so that no higher ranked team ever gets fewer rewards than a lower ranked team in a lower subleague. That is a perverse result for facing higher competition.

                    That said--competition has increased dramatically. There were weeks under the old system where we would not war because it wasn't worth our time to win 7 egg tokens from the #2 Sapphire team if we got a weird grouping. Before, the #25 team wouldn't have a chance in hell of beating us. Now--it will be competitive at the very least, and if we're lazy, they could conceivably beat us. If you're only warring when a team isn't 50/50, I have to think you aren't looking very hard for war opponents or perhaps you're truly not suited for your current league if you can't beat any of 24 teams at even strength.

                  • MareZ
                    MareZ commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Agreed with Mech.
                    Egg Token payouts already changed in case of your question about what improved SuperSax .
                    The next thing will hopefully be the event rewards.

                  • Jess
                    Jess commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Actually, teams work hard to make sure they are not caught with 49 players. If teams do get caught with 49/50 they don't expect a free ride, it's just different levels of competition. To be honest the team my main is in doesn't get 'pounded on'.

                    I would say though that if you faced off on even one of the middle order Diamond teams, I'm referencing the actual Diamond League, not the secondary one, you would feel like you were being pounded on even with 50 players.

                    Egg token payouts have improved that would be one thing. Also, competition has improved. At least the Plat league my Alt is in they work harder and it's less sleepy. They took pride the 'hard-fought' wars they won and didn't begrudge the ones they lost. Personally, I think they have a great attitude and if they can keep it together they will rise back up to Sapphire.

                • #58
                  reading a lot of the "complaints" about the league restructure, it seems as if PG could have minimized the negative feedback by doing one simple thing... adjusting the daily league token payout so that hardly any teams would have seen a reduction. that seems to me to be the biggest complaint here, that all of a sudden teams feel like they're getting the shaft by getting bumped down a league and are getting crappier prizes. well... the prizes were crappy after diamond anyway before the restructure, so I don't see a reason (other than greed) why PG just didn't make it more simple on their part and set the old sapphire prizes and token payout as the baseline for the bottom sapphire teams being relocated to platinum or whatever. those teams would have been "called" platinum but they still would have gotten the same prizes as before, and thus probably would not have complained. meanwhile, you buff up the "real" sapphire and diamond prizes and payouts even more, which makes all of those players happy, and still provides motivation for the demoted teams to war and get better and stronger and try to advance in leagues to get better rewards.

                  also, I still think that the major missing piece to the puzzle is putting a multiplier on individual prizes in the major events, since now all players are expending more resources (time, money, in-game boosts and rss, etc) to achieve individual progress in events due to competing against similar team competition.


                  • Spooky
                    Spooky commented
                    Editing a comment
                    I don't know, I agree with your analysis on the one hand, but on the other I thought the reward cuts would also be quite motivating to spur activity and competition for teams who wanted to get back what they lost. Giving a safe landing for all 800 Sapphire teams wouldn't have the same effect (fear of loss being a much greater motivator than potential future gain) plus Sapphire never should have been 800 teams to begin with. I get the point though, and I wouldn't have been upset or anything if they did it that way.

                    As for your second point, I couldn't agree more. It is a terrible incentive to face much harder competition and get less than a lower ranked team in a lower subleague. This needs to be a priority for fixing.

                  • xxCLAYxx
                    xxCLAYxx commented
                    Editing a comment
                    yeah I agree 800 sapphire teams was too much, but then again they were told that when they first floated the idea of a new league between plat and diamond, so I guess I don't really have much sympathy for it "costing" PG more in token rewards to "fix" their previous misalignment of leagues.

                    I understand the motivation of loss vs gain, but my concern is that some of the players who experienced the cut aren't going to "work harder" to get their team back into a better paying league, but instead will abandon those plat teams to join a sapphire team or something like that. I also think that seeing a listing of the payouts for higher leagues would help to motivate them to stay together to move up and earn them rather than putting some teams in a position where they might see good players leave for a better league because of the restructure payout differences.