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Leaving War Dragons

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  • aldinach
    started a topic Leaving War Dragons

    Leaving War Dragons

    I’ve come close to this point a few times in the past, but I’m now past the point where I can continue to invest my time & money in War Dragons.

    Out of respect for the many friends I have left playing this game, I’m writing this post in the hope that some of the points here will change the way PG makes decisions in the future. I have substantial doubts that it will have any effect, but given I’ve invested over a year of my life in this game, I figure I’ll give something back on my way out. Fair warning, this is a novel of a length that only PlayerJ might appreciate . I won’t be offended if players don’t read it all, but I hope for the sake of the game that PG will.

    Where Am I In the Game?
    So that you understand my perspective on the game, I’m a level 200 player with 50M medals who is an officer in a Diamond League Team. I have one (horribly useless) garnet dragon (Jul). I’m a moderate spender (very moderate by the standards of Diamond) and have been playing the game for ~14 months. With that as background, here goes:

    The Main Things Causing Me (and Players like me) to Leave the Game:

    Issue #1: The Structure of The Sapphire/Garnet Dragon Tiers and Level 45 Towers
    • The horrendously misguided decision to release Level 45 Towers and Garnet Dragons so soon (despite tons of player feedback against it)
    • The outrageous costs and limited breeding options for Garnet Dragons
    • The drastically increased build times of towers Level 40+, and related/required storage upgrades

    The way this tier of dragons and towers are structured, it is absolutely impossible for non/moderate spenders to keep pace with the game. This is because the token requirements for Sapphire+ was an epic leap from Gold & Platinum.

    For perspective on how much it changed:
    • The average token cost per dragon for Gold & Platinum Dragons was ~20k tokens per dragon bred.
    • The average token cost per dragon for Sapphire is 150k per dragon bred(this can be brought down moderately by the limited # of back-breeds available in Sapphire)
    • The average token cost per dragon for Garnet is 167k / dragon bred

    Summary: Between the gold/platinum and sapphire/garnet tiers, PG increased the token cost per dragon by 7-8x what it had been.

    This has slowed the pace of progress in the game to an absolute crawl, and when you combine the lack of interesting new dragons with the lack of innovation in events, the boredom level goes off the charts.

    Because of the way the breeding paths are built (sadly, I chose to breed Apophet before the Garnet pairs were released), I’ve spent the last three months breeding:
    • Scorchil (mostly useless dragon for wars in Diamond, but ok for the occasional RSS run on a poorly designed base),
    • Quetz (a back-breed for breeding only),
    • Iteru (an utterly completely horrible dragon that has no use other than breeding),
    • Jul (a garnet dragon with broken spells who is not useful for anything), and
    • Hauheset (a super cool dragon with awesome spells that is now eclipsed by the release of Level 45 towers).

    So for 600k tokens and 3 month’s time (and ~$200 in value packs), I have one useful dragon (Hauheset). This is a chasm in the game that PG must fix.

    Players not willing to spend > $1000 are looking at a ~12-month gap to proceed past this point, during which they get almost no useful dragons from breeding. For me, this was the dagger in the heart. I’m bored beyond belief after the last 3 months, and frustrated that I’m still ~5 months / 500k tokens (and more $) from a good Garnet hunter (Zaru and maybe Icicle).

    Issue #2: Consistent Lack of Care/Competence Shown with the Introduction of New Dragons/Spells/Content

    • Nonsensical additions to the game that hurt gameplay while serious issues persist. Examples:
      • The “open chest” animation that took 5-10 seconds to complete while a dragon ripped open a chest - a horribly misguided addition to the game that shows the people involved don’t understand gameplay.
      • The “new” defensive boost animations that make it harder to see what is happening in a battle - again showing that PG doesn’t understand game mechanics well enough to know a bad idea before implemented.

    In almost every case above, an extremely limited amount of testing by someone who understands the game would have highlighted that these things were fundamentally broken before being released. If someone in the team claims to be doing this and these bugs are still making it into the game, that person should be replaced by PG with someone more competent. If the game's management is accepting excuses internally for how complex the game code is and how hard this is to catch, they are being misled and should raise expectations immediately. This just can't be an acceptable answer over the long period of time it has been used to explain these problems. Also, players have offered to test new content and so far all that’s been put into beta is a largely misguided world map (which I won’t elaborate on, but is super frustrating that development on this continues while so many fundamental flaws persist)

    And more generally, the game suffers from non-stop technical glitches - this week’s issues with datacenter/3rd party provider issues are just one example. There’s a different one every week that players have largely come to endure. If these were infrequent or new, I could shrug them off. But they’re constant and (with the exception of the provider issues) indicate a lack of skill in the current team that isn’t being improved over time (I realize that’s offensive, but the results over such a long period of time don’t leave a lot of room for misinterpretation).

    Issue #3: Consistent Lack of Empathy, Understanding, Competence, and Communication from PocketGems staff
    • The lack of knowledge about game mechanics shown by PG employees
      • PG Staff telling players that farms/mills have never protected resources despite research options in the game for exactly that
      • Introducing huge increases in build times for towers levels 35-40 in the past without a pre-announcement that led to a massive outcry from the player base (which PG did roll back, but could have been avoided with communication and transparency -- the fact that they couldn't predict players would HATE this shows how disconnected they are, or how little they care)
      • Deciding to replace wood packs & timers with energy packs “as an extra bonus” in a fortification event
    • Embarrassingly poor and remarkably-inconsistent customer support
      • There is no other description for this, it should be embarrassing to PG. And the fact that PG hasn’t found a way to differentiate the support experience for high-medal, high-level players from those that are on their first day of playing the game shows a lack of care/competence in the management of that team. Players with 30+ million medals should not have to endure the help desk telling them to uninstall and reinstall the game in response to every issue raised. This should be changed immediately to improve the experience for the high-level active players remaining.
    • Broken & Forgotten Promises from PG Staff
      • Jared’s promise in a Facebook live stream to look into Gold Chests and remove items players disliked the most in chests. Despite a half dozen requests to follow up on this commitment, and a poll where ~100 players gave their opinion, he and EggToken have been absolutely silent on the issue since then. This kind of disregard for your player base, and callous willingness to break a commitment and offer no comment on it whatsoever is extremely telling as to how PG feels about the opinions of its players.
      • Joseph’s past promises to look at ways to remove items like fire/ice/elemental shards from gold chests are completely forgotten (I actually believed him when he said this the first time, but now understand that dropped commitments and promises are closer to the norm than the exception — though in his case, I have a feeling he tried and was shut down by the PG money machine)
      • The commitment to increase the egg token payouts at higher leagues to offset the huge cost of the upper tier of dragons has been forgotten to the point where EggToken had to ask who made it (Jared). But the fact that Jared could make the comment and others internally don’t know about it tells you that commitments are casually made and forgotten without communication inside the PG team.


  • Ramses
    I'm absolutely shocked PG hasn't closed Aldi's thread as a "sticky" subject to avoid addressing his concerns which still apply. This game is more chore than fun. I play for my friends not to enjoy the game. I refuse to spend on it anymore and I was an avid player/spender for several years. I now play other games for fun. @Tencent has destroyed this game. The recent addition of capital to PG was heartbreaking because anyone with a brain can see where it's heading. Goodbye PG. Hello Chinese baloney.

    Leave a comment:

  • MareZ
    commented on 's reply
    Absolutely agreed. And your numbers are pretty fair with 3,2k Egg Tokens and a 50% increase in dragon cost.
    Right now max Egg Token chest drop is 3k and over the last few tiers the token requirements have gone up by what? 100%? 200%?
    They might say they gave us Mystic Frags but those declined in value aswell as dragons need more and more fragments. And the dilution of chests by other new items isn't even factored in (ice frags, fire frags, embers, black pearls, ...)
    Then they might say they increased the rubies in value packs but that's only for paying players. Bottom line is they nerfed ruby payouts in events plus gold chests and that hurts everyone, no matter if you pay or not.

  • Kittens
    commented on 's reply
    The thing other than nerfs themselves (100 chests today will get you the speedups and egg tokens of maybe 40 chests a year ago because of dilution and nerfed amounts), but the sapphire wall makes it impossible for dragons to keep up with bases. By the time I have my first garnet dragon, I'll probably be well above the den cap for emerald. Remember when getting your first gold legendary happened at about the same time you could finally cap orange dragons from 2 tiers back? That's never gonna happen again. Not unless a couple million tokens fall from the sky...

  • AngelOfVoid
    commented on 's reply
    I agree with you. This situation is ridiculous, and could be fast solved without all this mystery on how they will increase the amount for egg tokens. At least partially solved with what you suggested, plus increasing the egg token she for missions too.
    They slow motion to handle it, is being irritating. The only reason I haven't now quit the game still is because of my teammates, but even so I'm already with one foot out. This game has become boring and stagnated.

  • Schnookums420
    Ive read ead this entire thread. I am a level 200 ex-paying player and leader of a 1730 sapphire team. I fully agree with these players and am, as always, highly disappointed with how pg handles issues. The time frame to make things happen is steadily feeding the stagnancy of the game.

    It seems to me the merger of PG with another company is when the game started taking a major fall and turned into a money pit. Kinnarku set the game in motion for a downward spiral and its has steadily gotten worse every single day.

    I barely play anymore for fun, and literally only log on to keep my team going and help my friends. This game is not fun anymore, at one point the events kept me interested but now even they are nothing more than a time consuming grind that feels like a chore rather than a fun escape.

    What concerns me the most in regards to the breeding token concerns is that most players are forgetting 1 very very important thing. It's been forgotten for so long which means the plan is working.

    Back in the spring/summer of 2016 we were getting 4.8k egg tokens as a legendary gold drop. In September 2016 that number decreased to 4.2k. Then it dropped to 3.8k. And now it's dropped to what? 3.2k? I believe that happened around December. The bronze chests drops also decreased but I can't remember the figures on that.

    So weve experience in the past year a decrease in chest amounts by ~30%. But an increase in dragon costs by ~50%. Also Considering the severe decrease in tokens (among decrease in rubies, valuable rare boosts etc) for event prizes compared to the beginning days of the game, added to insane energy/IF cost to participate in an event, it's amazing any one can progress at all for free play.

    So now that everyone has forgotten these key points, when they finally come through and increase our tokens just a little bit, everyone will be so happy and pleased. And pg will still get what they want, happy paying players that are sucked into thinking they're getting a better deal finally. When really what we got was a Sale tag on a product that had its cost increased prior to the sale to sell false perceptions.

    Same game retail stores play every single day. Buy a 12 pack of soda today for $3.99. Yet next week they go on "sale" and it shows sale price is $4.29 and original price was $4.99... come back a week after the sale ends and bam back to the real cost of $3.99.

    The sad part is we will never go back to what our original pay out was. We can only hope the new "increased" amount will come somewhat close to that old amount of 4.8k per drop. Which really the amount should have remained 4.8k this entire time and the new increased amount needs to be an additional increase of at least 25% to even begin to offset the insane costs of the upper 4 dragon tiers.

    If the concern is that the amount is putting new players at a fast growth advantage then a sliding scale needs to be added to consider player level. Since each tier requires a dencap, the token amount could be scaled based on player level, just as wood and food packs are scaled. At this moment a level 20 can get 5 dragons from 1 gold chest of 3.2k tokens. A level 200 can get, on average maybe 1/50th of a dragon from that same chest.

    EggToken PGJared

    Leave a comment:

  • Kittens
    commented on 's reply
    The combo timer has absolutely screwed me in the past two events, because the loading has been atrocious, and has been getting worse. It used to be I could give myself a 10 minute window in case of crashes and whatnot, but then hit 10 minutes of loading hell and lost it. Then 15 minutes. Then a solid *day* of not being able to load the event at all, and I just gave up on it. It seems like a nice idea on paper, but when you actually try, given the loading situation, it's the worst idea ever.

  • MareZ
    commented on 's reply
    Wow really... all the wait and he posts this "big formal announcement" in multi page thread?
    And it's great if breeding tokens went up in event prizes BUT you nerfed the rubies AND it has nothing to do with the 3.0 update.
    The event payouts were changed before that so PGJared has to be talking about something else when he said 3.0 added more breeding tokens.

    Anyway, great to hear one week later that there will not follow another bigger announcement that would be posted in public.
    I guess we just have to wait more patiently, please keep us posted.

  • Dravoz
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for responding. I was really hoping for better, but there you go. Weeks of waiting for a 'big formal announcement' which turns out to be basically 'we are looking at stuff' and 'we are working on stuff'. Looks to me like Aldinach spent a whole lot more time and effort working on his original post than PG spent on the response. Disappointing, but not surprising.

  • EggToken
    commented on 's reply
    The post from PGJared a while ago was the full announcement. Some of the mentioned points are still in development, but when more information is available, we'll post about them individually. Since March, major event progression prizing has seen a Breeding Token increase of a little over 40%. As mentioned, this is not the only change to Breeding Token availability that is on the way.

  • Dravoz
    EggToken can you please answer the following questions:

    1 - You stated that "PGJared should be posting a small update about this soon, but there are still a few relevant parties that we need to confirm things with before the big formal announcement". Can you confirm that the last update from PGJared was the only the 'small update'?

    2 - Where are things at in terms of confirming things with relevant parties (given that a month has passed since you posted the above), and when can we expect the 'big formal announcement'?

    3 - Will the 'big formal announcement' provide meaningful responses to all the concerns raised in the OP, or a subset?

    4 - What did PGJared mean by "this is partially addressed in 3.0 by adding more breeding tokens"?

    Leave a comment:

  • Spooky
    commented on 's reply
    This is an excellent point. The bonus meter basically becomes the optimal way to play an event, and the prize tiers are on a one way ratchet up anyway so the meter becomes "priced in" to the prize tier milestones. So all you really get out of it is a loss of flexibility on how to approach the event unless you are going to spend enough whereby it doesn't matter how you structure your event participation.

    No event is worse or more tedious in this regard than the one with valors--in that one, the interplay between the bonus meter, valor bonus and super attack point calculation combine to basically force marathon play sessions. The super attack is an awful deal instead of a having a relatively modest convenience tax.

    In any event, I hope that whatever this stretch tier is under consideration will allow PG to restructure event rewards so they feel more valuable than they do currently.

    PGJared PGDave

  • GBill
    commented on 's reply
    Thank you for your clarification. However, that isn't what was implied earlier on. Do you see now why many of us want you as a company to communicate with us better? Yes, you are all human but this miscommunication is not the exception. Maybe PGJared told us what he thought was the truth but was not informed about its non implementation, that would point to serious internal communication problems.
    Anyhow, I truly appreciate being informed by an official representative and I look forward to the egg token improvements.

  • xxCLAYxx
    Originally posted by PGJared View Post
    [*]Rewards in events feel worse while point costs feel higher.[*]The addition of bonus meters should help players progress through the prize tiers more quickly. We are also looking into potentially adding “stretch” tiers for players who cap out which would allow earlier tiers to have lower point costs while still giving players who push hard something to aim for.

    maybe I'm in the minority here, but I dislike the bonus timer as in the majority of the events that it's implemented for, it encourages players to simply bank energy daily during the cost reset and then play continuously for a few hours at one time during the event. it basically throws any strategy or coordination or anything else out the window and encourages individual play and ignoring team and rewards someone for grinding mindlessly for hours just once during an event

    to me it feels like an excuse to raise the prize tiers to "force" big spenders to spend more because many don't want to bank energy and play in one big session and instead will play when they feel like it and spend more energy to get more points to reach the higher prize tiers

    have I taken advantage of the bonus meter? of course I have, and for me personally, it makes me want to delete the game and throw my phone through a wall, not in that order, because it wasn't fun to sit for 3 hours grinding in an event using banked energy to take advantage of the scoring methodology, not to mention the constant lag, exiting and re-entering the event, having to log out occasionally to keep from crashing, etc, etc, etc.

    Leave a comment:

  • AngelOfVoid
    commented on 's reply
    When will this change come?
    In time for the next breeding?
    How will be the change?
    If I don't see any benefit, I will be the next one leaving this game.