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Proposal: Tear down this [Sapphire] wall!

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  • Proposal: Tear down this [Sapphire] wall!

    EggToken PGJared Echo

    I have spent several hours pouring over the breeding options for Sapphire and above, and I would like to try and fix some of the issues without compromising the whole price structure entirely. Will this be the cheapest way to fix the Sapphire Wall? No. I think there have been simplistic proposals to lessen the cost in a more significant way than I am about to, and thus I don't think it is needed for me to dive in there.


    Goals
    • Create more breeding path options by opening up Platinum Legendary true backbreeds
    • Remove the need for superfluous breeding after one gets a mythic and a legendary of the following tier
    • Keep the "basic" full breed costs - 3 legendaries and 1 mythic per tier.
    • Create logical backbreed openings as new tiers open up
    • Still make it more effient to breed with a breeding path over "willy nilly" aka random breeding.


    Changes

    Platinum Changes Proposed
    The Changes/Backbreeds
    Dragon Dragon Offspring Parent Parent Tokens Current Proposal Notes
    Kelvin Kelvin Hauheset Scorchil 64,000 9,700 Remove Cerbero (60%) and Cryzan (10%) and add those to the existing 12% for Kelvin, for a total of a 82% chance to get Kelvin.
    Kaiju Kaiju Sekhem Hauheset 10,933 (offspring) Keep the changes the same, but instead of this parent set backbreeding Vulcan, have it backbreed Kaiju at 73%.
    Kaiju Hauheset Iteru N/A 9,700 Remove Nosfer (72%) and Necura (10%) and create a 82% backbreed for Kaiju.
    Quetz Quetz Apophet Anapa 64,000 9,880 Remove the Jagra (57%) and Rizar (12%) and add those to the existing 12% for Quetz, for a total of 81% chance for Quetz.
    Rizar, Quetz Rizar, Quetz Apophet Sekhem N/A 16,000 Create a breed for 50% Rizar and 50% Quetz.
    Rizar Mehaten Gorgonus 64,000 8,980 Remove the Nosfer (55%), Jacra (10%), and Vulcan (12%) and add them to the existing 12% for Rizar, for a total of 89% chance for Rizar.
    Vulcan Vulcan Mehaten Chompa N/A 9,700 Remove the Chompa (70%) and Kelvin (12%) and create a 82% chance to Vulcan.

    Sapphire Changes Proposed
    The Changes/Backbreeds
    Dragon Offspring Parent Parent Tokens Current Proposal Notes
    Hauheset, Scorchil Jul Renard 28,571 28,571 / 33,333 Keep the Hauheset (70%) breed as is. Remove the Mehaten (10%), Jul (10%) and Renard (10%) breeds and combine the remaining for a new Scorchil backbreed (30%).
    Hauheset Avalanche Renard 28,571
    Mehaten, Anapa Frostbiter Ursa 27,857 27,857 / 37,037 Keep the Mehaten (71%) breed as is. Remove the Frostbiter (10%), Ursa (10%), and Chompa (7%) breeds and add create a new breed of 27% chance to get Anapa.
    Mehaten Frostbiter Renard N/A 25,000 Remove the Sekhem (80%) and create a Mehaten (80%) breed.
    Apophet Jul Zaru 25,000 Remove, unneeded.
    Apophet Renard Ursa 23,750 Remove, unneeded.
    Apophet Avalanche Zaru N/A 25,000 Create a new breeding pair: Apophet (80%), Avalanche (10%), and Zaru (10%).
    Apophet Zaru Ursa N/A 25,000 Create a new breeding pair: Apophet (80%), Ursa (10%), and Zaru (10%).
    Gorgonus / Chompa Hauheset Frostbiter N/A 11,760 / 66,660 Create a new breeding pair: Gorgonus (85%), Chompa (15%)
    Sekhem / Anapa Hauheset Ursa N/A 11,760 / 66,661 Create a new breeding pair: Sekhem (85%), Anapa (15%)
    Anapa / Scorchil Mehaten Avalanche N/A 11,760 / 66,662 Create a new breeding pair: Anapa (85%), Scorchil (15%)
    Scorchil / Sekhem Mehaten Zaru N/A 11,760 / 66,663 Create a new breeding pair: Scorchil (85%), Sekhem (15%)
    Gorgonus / Iteru Apophet Jul N/A 11,760 / 66,664 Create a new breeding pair: Gorgonus (85%), Iteru (15%)
    Iteru / Gorgonus Apophet Renard N/A 11,760 / 66,665 Create a new breeding pair: Iteru (85%), Gorgonus (15%)

    Garnet Changes Proposed:
    The Changes/Backbreeds
    Dragon Offspring Parent Parent Tokens Current Proposal Notes
    Icicle Deci Kerbos 220,000 27,500 Remove the Renard (60%) and Aquileas & Austeros (10%) and add them to the existing 10% for Icicle, for a total of 80% for Icicle.
    Aquileas & Austeros Pyrochis Slax N/A 27,500 Remove the Zaru (70%) and Gloomclaw (10%) and add a true Aquleas and Austeros (80%) breed,
    Gloomclaw Kyrule Ferga 27,500
    Avalanche / Aquileas & Austeros Kerbos N/A 16,470 / Create a new breeding pair: Avalanche (85%), XXXX (15%)

    Because the forum tables suck, you can take a look at my google sheet too: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    I spent a lot of time looking at Garnet Legendary backbreeds, but if these things are fixed, a lot of issues will go away. The only glaring need is for an Avalanche backbreed which is why I have added that one. If you feel there are more backbreeds that should be considered, please send me an example of the path you're on and I'll try and make it work.
    Last edited by TheRedDelilah; 4 weeks ago.
    Love Red,

    Leader of Rulith
    Lover of Spreadsheets



    Helpful Threads:
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  • #2
    Nice work. I'd really like them to finish your other proposal first though (league restructure).

    Comment


    • #3
      You did that all in a few hours? PG need to hire you imagine how fast things will get done!!

      I really like your approach it is sensible and well thought out and compliments the exisitng red - platinum breeding paths.

      PGJared are you able to comment on this proposal, cheers mate!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by gaza8143 View Post

        PGJared are you able to comment on this proposal, cheers mate!
        Sure, looks interesting. As far as whether we'd do it or not, I can't say. This is something that would require a ton of internal discussions, similar to suggestions around league restructures.

        Comment


        • #5
          This is a fantastic idea for these tiers! My only question would be if there will still be a byproduct of eggs for research after these changes have been made? Removing the resulting children options would stop extra eggs from occurring altogether for these tiers, so how could that be corrected without just ruling out research? Comparing it to my own path it would most definitely shorten up my expectancies on certain dragons! Amazing proposition! You're doing PG a favor by doing their work for them.

          Comment


          • TheRedDelilah
            TheRedDelilah commented
            Editing a comment
            No path this high gives off enough eggs for research naturally. I haven't touched research since green tier.

        • #6
          Red you didn't address Emerald now that Obsidian is released. Also this seems overly complicated whereas if they simply reduced the required number of frags with each new release (by say 15%) they could more gradually increase the costs as you get closer to the highest tier doagons. meaning highest tier (currently obsidian) stays the same. The second tier (currently Emerald) gets discounted by 15% (needing 935 (187k tokens) versus the previous (220k tokens) for 1100 frags for one of their mythics. For the third class (currently Garnet) it would be 30% less 770 frags (154k tokens) for the mythics.... simple, effective and wouldn't requires PG to completely rework their backbreeds. I would cap this discount at 45% (which would apply to Sapphire).

          Comment


          • TheRedDelilah
            TheRedDelilah commented
            Editing a comment
            1. Obsidian tier isn't fully released.
            2. As I said in my OP: "I think there have been simplistic proposals to lessen the cost in a more significant way than I am about to, and thus I don't think it is needed for me to dive in there."

          • MikeGoN2GetU
            MikeGoN2GetU commented
            Editing a comment
            fair enough!

        • #7
          Yea amazing! ... to bad your briliance is wasted on PGs indifference and glacial decision making...

          Comment


          • #8
            Was reading the thread and thinking about it for a while.

            First of all - THANK YOU TheRedDelilah - trying to solve Problems the construcitve way is something I truly admire. And furthermore your proposals are usually very well elaborated.

            Yet there is a flaw in it from my Point of view.

            It is true that the "WALL" will hit you once you start breeding Sapphire Dragons.
            Problem of THIS solution is, you only put the wall one Tier to the back. And since new Dragon Tiers are released faster then breaking the wall, this solution would only be a temporary fix.

            Imagine how we discuss this topic in some months, if this solution would be implemented: By that time Amathyst and Ruby Tier Dragons are released and we would all face the EMERALD or OBSIDIAN wall while the top Dragons are pushed further and further away.

            Long Story short: shorterm this would be a remedy! Longterm with the evolution speed of this game it´s merely a drop on in the ocean.

            Unfortunatly I do NOT have a better solution right now. Actually entering a new breeding Tier with mythicals makes kinda sense.

            What´s needed imo is
            a) some pair breeding Options (anyone remember how you got Whale and Cons for 100k at the same time)
            b) more and more useful backbreeding options!
            c) Abandon the paradigm that EVERY Dragon of a Tier is needed to proceed

            Comment


            • TheRedDelilah
              TheRedDelilah commented
              Editing a comment
              Oh I'm so sorry - once I'm inside my head for too long, I forget to share the mess that it is in the entirety.

              These breeding backbreeds were made using a forumula. Once Obsidian is released in full, we would apply these same rules to Emerald.

          • #9
            I think would also be nice to add a few green and gold eggs as byproducts of some of these breeds so research can continue without sacrificing so many tokens. Another option for research eggs would be similar to what they did this weekend with the 2x breeding chance for some of the Orange through Gold Tier Epics and Legendaries. I propose that next breeding event special should be dedicated to research eggs by offering double breeding chance of Garzev (Viscus+Pandi) for Green research eggs and Lumen (Ith+Whalegnawer) for Gold research eggs.

            Comment


            • MikeGoN2GetU
              MikeGoN2GetU commented
              Editing a comment
              There are already pairs that give you 100% chance. they would need to reduce how many frags are required to complete the egg not increase the chance of getting them.

            • Dakhunter
              Dakhunter commented
              Editing a comment
              I think what he meant was to get twice the egg for the research pair. For example, with 800 tokens, you will have 2 green eggs

          • #10
            True. Something needs to be done about research eggs though

            Comment

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